posted Apr-25-2007 10:15 AM            

quote:

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Bob asked: "Since the local High School track is just 2 miles from my house would it be acceptable for me to do an easy 2 mile warm up and an easy 2 mile warm down so that I can maintain my base mileage?"

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posted Apr-25-2007 11:29 AM               

That really was quite the workout Illene, nice job indeed.

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posted Apr-25-2007 12:13 PM            

I had forgotten that your Boston really was more like a long training run. Nevertheless, I would not like to see you get hurt. You have enough stressful running coming up, without adding very tough track workouts. That's just my opinion and I note Fred doesn't agree, but not everyone "hammers" like Fred on the track.

Bill, as to you running a fiveK at 7 minute pace, I agree with you that you should not immediately go off targeting a whole lot of fiveK's, but certainly they should be inside of your regular training. I was surprised that you don't run the fiveK that often, but if you ran one every 5-6 weeks, your fiveK times would improve and they would provide a strong lift to the rest of your training I feel. Now and then throw one in there, but don't disrupt all your other training to do them. ("Pulling up the carrot" so to speak.) As an example, I am running a fiveK on Saturday with no rest and no change to my training this week and the fiveK will wrap up a 60 mile training week. I don't expect to blow the doors off it timewise, but it will be a strong week of training for me.

Ilene, you just plain ROCK! I am really proud of the way you have taken your mileage and your workouts up a notch.

Liz, look for shin splint post as a separate thread later today.

Finally, I listened to my own advice with my track workout today. (And Bob, believe me, it was hard to do!) Ten total miles and within it I did 5 x 1K's at a very comfortable 4:26 average pace, a bit slower than 7 minute pace. I had a hard time keeping them that easy, but what an invigorating workout. After these i did 1 slow mile, then one mile at HMP (7:35), then cooled down. Light stretches later, and feel very fresh right now. Left glute very loose now and no pain whatsoever. Spareribs

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posted Apr-25-2007 12:28 PM            

-Improve the body's ability to transport blood and oxygen

-Increase the ability of the running muscles to effectively use their available oxygen to convert carbohydrate and fat fuel into useful energy (or why I get agitated about the use of Gu in training runs).

-Shift lactate threshold to correspond to a faster running speed

-Increase aerobic capacity (VO2 max)

-Improve speed

-Lower the energy demand of running (improve economy)

Daniels also makes the point early on that the runner should know in every workout, which of these systems is being affected and how. That seems like a good idea to me.

It is easy to see that all out work on the track improves speed and economy. Daniels sees reps on the track as a great way to work on mechanics, and allows greater recovery for that reason.

I can do all-out work in races, so I don't use the track for that. Instead I get a greater benefit at less speed and in more LT work, which was missing from my training in the past. Spareribs

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posted Apr-25-2007 12:45 PM            

I'd like to see Bob go after that sub 6 mile speed that he was finishing
workouts at, because it's a tangible given. It already exists. All he has to
do is improve and expand on it.

if you can run 1 sub 6, you can do 2 with a rest, and then 3. The next
thing you know, your 5k time has dropped

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posted Apr-25-2007 03:33 PM               

One that is one of the easiest for me to overlook is this one from Spareribs’ post about the 6 systems:

“Lower the energy demand of running (improve economy)”
I tend to think of repetitions as being good only for raw speed, but that running economy can come in very handy at any distance. It makes sense too. I always notice feeling very uncoordinated when trying to go fast after not having done it in a while. After doing more of it, things start to smooth out a little. I’ve also read that mileage improves economy—the more you run the more economical you become.

Regarding hard track workouts vs more reserved approach, it is always controversial. Here is my thinking: A lot depends on the individual and the situation. Some runners just respond better to more intense workouts than others. Another key factor is racing. If you are going to run only a few races each year and want to build your training around them, you will need to push harder in many of your workouts than would someone who races regularly. If you have a little something left after your workouts but do an all-out race once or twice a month, those races can take the place of hammering away on the track.

This one borrowed from Compwire (“megapronator”) :
“A couple years ago I was sitting around with a group of top runners and each person was sharing what their best training tip was. Ryan Hall said he had learned to always finish a workout feeling like he could to a little more”

Of course, by being selective in which quote I chose, I picked one that conforms to my personal bias. Here is link to entire thread “Solid vs Killer Workouts?” http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum9/HTML/001771.shtml

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posted Apr-25-2007 04:17 PM            

You may also recall I tried to do an all out 200 and was surprised I did it in 40 seconds, thinking I should have done it much faster. i still feel that way. I am sure if I went down and did a bunch of all-out 200's, with full recovery, those times would come down, and it would all be based on adjustments to form.

In short, of the six "systems" running practice for form is one I am almost totally ignoring right now.

Liz, the shin splint thread is up. Spareribs

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posted Apr-25-2007 04:27 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by fredurie:
if you can run 1 sub 6, you can do 2 with a rest, and then 3. The next thing you know, your 5k time has dropped

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Consistent sub 6 miles is most definitely my goal Fred, I know I have the speed, now I just have to put in the work so that I can put three of them together and then some. Maybe that will get me into that 19 minute range and I can start looking more seriously at the sub 40 10K....OK first things first I know.

Wednesday - an easy recovery run - Cloudy & 56 degrees:

4.1 miles - 34:03 - (8:18)

8:34, 8:17, 8:15, 8:07, :48

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posted Apr-25-2007 06:25 PM               

Wednesday...

1 mile W/U, 4 @ tempo, 1 mile C/D

9:24, 8:18, 8:19, 8:19, 8:10, 9:47

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posted Apr-25-2007 11:32 PM               

Tue - 12 miles, 7 am + 5 pm, both on grass 8:10-8:20

Wed - 12 miles on rolling asphalt at 7:53 avg

Have 5k race on Sunday but am training through and using it as speed for HM on following weekend.

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posted Apr-26-2007 12:47 AM            

Some top runners finish every workout this way. They help keep some semblance of leg speed as you age and they won't tear you up. 200's are OK but they start to smell like speedwork and they can tear you down. Physiologically 100's are short enough so you do begin to accumulate significant amounts of lactic acid.

I always tell people I don't do speed work but once to twice a week I do 6 x 100 at about 18-20 seconds after my training run. They are really gliders (Galloway talk) because I don't try to do them as much for speed as for quick leg turnover. If you start trying to run them harder and faster they lose their meaning and you end up in the deep dark place where runners and other athletes tend to go. That place where you injure yourself or actually block your improvement.

Raider

There are many horses here but few can be led to drink.

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posted Apr-26-2007 01:47 AM               

We were just talking about these after the discussion about repititions today. It's one of the "shoulds" of my program that I don't do nearly often enough.

Is there any reason why you do yours after your training run, rather than during your last mile or at some point near the end of your run? When you finish them do you do any jogging, or are they the last running you do for the day.

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posted Apr-26-2007 06:29 AM            

5.6 easy miles this morning at 9:10 min/mile pace - avg. HR 139. This one felt slow while I was running it - I anticipated 9:30s or 9:40s - but it ended up being not so slow after all, especially given that easy HR range.

Bill

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posted Apr-26-2007 07:11 AM            

Again, my goal is to improve my time and increase my distance to be ready for the 10 mile run in October. I've planned 3 5ks over the summer and will also find some 10ks. My pace last weekend was 9:36 with a really slow mile 4 on that hilly 5 mile course.

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posted Apr-26-2007 08:27 AM            

I'll take a shot at your question. Mile repeats are a tough workout which should not be done often. They are useful for really building endurance - the ability to keep going when tired.

But I find that 800 or 1000 meter Intervals are a better all around speed workout. The amount of time between repeats should generally be from 2 to 3 minutes depending on the time it takes to run the repeat itself. It needs to be a sufficient amount of time (to get the HR back down) to enable you to complete all the repeats.

Bill

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posted Apr-26-2007 08:54 AM            

The Pro needs to take a break and focus on his races.

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posted Apr-26-2007 09:28 AM            

AM 6 mile progression, pushed the last 8 minutes hard, light
rain.

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posted Apr-26-2007 10:20 AM            

Good question. Habit I guess. I like to finish the run and then do the strides rather than insert them into a part of the run. It makes an easy run hard so I finish the easy run and then do the 100's. I also run on rolling trails at home so I don't often get access to a flat place like a track or measured out 100 while out on a run. My runs finish either by a track or by a place where I have measured out 100 meters.

No reason why you can't do them in the last mile. You would probably get the same effect running 20 seconds striding every two minutes in the last mile of a run.

Raider

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posted Apr-26-2007 10:57 AM            

Euphoric, in addition to Bill's good comments above, Daniels spends more time on this discussion. He doesn't like to see interval sessions in which the work bout is longer than five minutes, and his reasoning is that at five minutes you have too great a lactic acid buildup which interferes with your getting the most of the entire workout, so he has no mile repeats in his interval schedules. Use five minutes as your upper end for the work bout. I think 800's would be right for you.

Friday: 8.2 slow on dirt, but felt fine. Spareribs

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posted Apr-26-2007 12:54 PM            

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posted Apr-26-2007 01:14 PM               

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posted Apr-26-2007 01:18 PM            

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posted Apr-26-2007 01:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by glidegal:
Reading your posts makes me realize how much I have to learn.

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glidegal,

I'm glad you like your new shoes. As Paolo Nutini says in his great song, "New Shoes" (2006):

Hey, I put some new shoes on,
and suddenly everything is right

But you know what? You don't have to learn a lot, to enjoy your running or to get better at it. Read what the guys here have to say, recognize it's often contradictory, and understand that's because we are all different.

The main thing you need to do, to improve as a runner, is to run as many miles as you can--increasing gradually, of course. Running more miles will make you stronger and more efficient.

If you want to join this "nest of marathoners," as Sun Raider put it, or words to that effect, you don't need to do any speedwork, though probably a little would help you.

If you want to run 5K's, you will have to do significant speedwork, in my opinion, to get used to the increasingly serious discomfort you will feel during miles 2 and 3, and to build leg speed.

Finally, because women especially are often very slow, probably due in part to lack of muscle strength, you will want to spend time in the gym, building up both your upper body and lower body.

OK, I think that about covers it. The rest is details. It doesn't matter much, whether you do quarter-mile repeats or 800s or Yassos or whatever else is the latest rage. It may matter for the elites, but not so much for us.

Dark Horse

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posted Apr-26-2007 02:15 PM            

4:24, 4:04, 4:01, 4:13, 4:14, 4:10

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posted Apr-26-2007 03:21 PM            

DH--yes, that song was running through my head...I think there's something to it!! Yes, I know I don't HAVE to know more, but now I want to understand how to maximize my efforts. I have always and will always enjoy my runs and look at my workouts primarily as improving my mental or physical health, secondarily as a WORKout. In other words, I'm in it because I love it, but now I want to get better at it.

I did the 5K as a suggestion from which to build other projected times which I now have. In doing that I had a blast---I'll probably do more because they are a fun change from long, slow workouts or longer races... It won't be my chosen race, just a way to track some progress. Yup, you're right on: longer distance, gradually... this advice coming from the guy who ran a marathon with little training under his belt ;-o

Now that I am running again, I have abandoned the gym--bad practice. I need to get back in there a couple of alternate days a week, but the lure of sleep is too strong. thanks for the insights. how are you recuperating? glidegal

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