posted Apr-24-2007 12:39 AM            

I would run easy for several months and cut out the speedwork and keep running easy until you begin to feel strong. Sounds like you are beating your head against a wall. It sounds like you are not recovering. You might even considering running every other day for a time and then gradually add back in days as you feel decent again. We all slow down. You can't avoid that. Injury and illness can be a big indicator of not recovering. At 54 it is tough to go do what you did in your 40's.

Good Luck!

Raider

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posted Apr-24-2007 09:38 AM            

Liz, I'll look forward to seeing you in DC. Maybe we can meet for a run before then. Please let me know if there is an interesting one coming up. I don't think I'm ready for one of your ten mile adventures yet, but maybe you would settle for something less?

I did 6 easy miles on the golf course this morning which left me with tingling legs. While there, I met a Korean exchange studen'ts wife and we discussed world politics, the environment, grammar, and the weather during our run. 6 miles have never gone so fast. I'll try to get some "speed" work in tomorrow.

Ribs, maybe I'm just not a very good judge of terrain. Valley Forge has been the setting for many struggles. Just wait until next year.

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posted Apr-24-2007 11:40 AM            

I tried on new shoes this weekend and came home with some Brooks with lots of support, rather than the asics I usually prefer. Brooks just felt better.... in the store. As I laced them up for a run I realized they are so much heavier than my asics--so i have not used them yet in case I want to return them. Question: is the extra weight of the cushioning better than running in lighter shoes? Almost seems like a disadvantage to add that much extra weight. I know we're talking ounces here, but the difference is very noticeable. Thoughts from the pros? glidegal

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posted Apr-24-2007 11:47 AM            

Cuchalain, I agree for the most part with Sun. I don't see the point of these 400's on the track. Why not go back to the basics and run some long,slow miles and save the track for when you have a bigger base and feel relaxed and comfortable, and then if you go to the track, run 800's and oneK's at a bit slower pace. Easy is better.

Tuesday: 7.1 on the dirt, first 2 slow, then the rest at easy pace. Full exercise set afterwards. I have no aches or soreness and feeling good. My plan this week is unusual in that I am trying to run two consecutive weeks of relatively high mileage (for me) and finish with a fiveK race this Saturday, training right through it with no pre-race rest or easing up. I just want to see what kind of fiveK I can run while tired, sort of how you run a short race as part of marathon training. Spareribs

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posted Apr-24-2007 01:15 PM               

Advice from Spareribs and Sun Raider seems to be consistent with what I observed when I commented on your thread:
"So far as training, you are running too fast for your current condition, both for your track workouts and “easy” runs. I can’t stress this enough. If I were in your position I would either knock off the track workouts for a while, or if you do like to go to the track, just do cruise or tempo intervals when there...
Here is link that can give you an idea of correct training paces. It’s good that you have a benchmark 5k to base them on. As your race times drop, so will your training paces:
http://runworks.com/calculator.html "

Most of us have been down the same road. I know that I have, so I'm not throwing any stones. Things are really different when you get up into the 50's.

[This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Apr-24-2007).]

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posted Apr-24-2007 04:59 PM               

Tuesday - 6 miles @ recovery. I know a lot of people recommend taking days off to recover, but it seems like an easy jog is a better for me, days off just don't seem to work as well.

After almost no running in January and February, I'm into week # 3 of 40 miles a week. I've been able to do a decent long run and tempo run during these weeks as well, so I'm happy to be making progress.

I'll cut-back next week, then aim for a little more mileage, some speedwork and a race or two in the near future.

I'm ALMOST back...

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posted Apr-24-2007 05:18 PM               

7.07 Miles 54:16 - (7:40)

8:05, 7:48, 7:52, 7:34, 7:34, 7:30, 7:15, :20

HR - Avg 139 / Max 156

Feeling fully recovered from the marathon. I've got an easy 4 miles on Wednesday, moderate 6 miles Thursday and Friday Intervals: 6 x Fast 440s, run at 5K minus 15 sec. We'll see this pans out.

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posted Apr-24-2007 07:39 PM            

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posted Apr-25-2007 06:32 AM               

I have had pretty good luck using the training programs found here on Cool Running with some slight adaptations and I don’t always stick right to the number on miles as I often add a few extra miles for both quality and quantity.

Anyway with these races being such a short time out after Boston I figured I would plug myself into the 5 mile program since I know the competition will be pretty stiff at that race and the 5K is three weeks sooner and I’m pretty confident that I should do well in the law enforcement age group (50 – up) and I don’t mean to slight any other officers out there, I am just going on what I have seen the past few years around here.

I have also looked at CATZ’s training programs which use “Fartleks” on many of the days that the Cool Running program uses “Intervals” and as we know they really are very similar just less structured. So I believe that the Intervals are placed here to help me increase my training intensity without overtraining or burn-out and to aide in the prevention of injuries often associated with repetitive endurance exercise.

I hope this answers your question, as I have stated I am still a relative newbie and I’m learning and constantly tweak my training according to what I read both here and from the any books I can get my hands on. And of course I am constantly talking with my running buds here in Maine.

PS if you, Fred, Jim, Raider, DH or anyone else has any suggestions believe me I am all ears!

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posted Apr-25-2007 08:04 AM               

Mr. Ribs and all you other great and wise runners: Update on the possible shin splints.
I did not get to go out for a "brisk" walk yesterday, but when I was walking too and from the metro (about 4 blocks) I could feel the shin. As it got warmed up, the pain lessened and sometimes went away, but it always returned after sitting for a few minutes and then trying to walk again. It also hurts just walking around the house, but I can rub up and down my shin and not jump out of my skin. So, my question is: should I stay off it, or should I go out and give it the brisk walk? My goal is of course to return to running ASAP so I hesitate to take it for a brisk walk. But you guys and gals surely have more experience with these things than me. I used to get them all the time when I first started running, but I have not had them in a few years. Boo Hoo

Oh yea, weather is wonderful today, so willing to take it for a brisk walk today if that is the prescription. And I am blaming it on the curb you know not the back to back 10 milers

Mr Ribs: Are you ok there in Texas? The news this a.m. said a terrible storm blew through the Dallas area.

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posted Apr-25-2007 08:20 AM            

Liz, this afternoon I will post some exercises for shin splints, and for now I wouldn't stress it, even with a brisk walk if you are still feeling discomfort. I was not aware you have been bothered by them before, so this is what it is. When you run, do your feet "slap"? That is, make a slapping sound as the feet hit the pavement? Or would you describe yourself as a quiet runner? More on this later.

I am off to the track today. And yes, did we get storms! I don't get all that nervous about tornados as there are lots of warnings but seldom any tornados, but hail is very common and it is big down here. When you get it, it destroys your roof. Spareribs

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posted Apr-25-2007 08:38 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spareribs:
Bob, I asked the question out of concern that you are only a bit over a week removed from Boston and I worried you would run the 400's too fast. (In fact, I am sure you will run the 400's too fast, knowing you!) Be careful with them at least. I know you are feeling good but I hope you won't be looking at 90 second quarters. I would make this a very light workout.

---

Ahhh now I got ya Ribs, and yeah I guess I resemble that remark don't I (In fact, I am sure you will run the 400's too fast, knowing you!) !! Well now you have me thinking, and you are right I really do feel good and the 7:30 miles in my longer runs have come pretty easily this week...and I am so tempted to see what I am capable of right now, and a 440 at 5K speed minus 15 seconds would in fact put me right around 90 seconds.

So when you say you would make this a light workout would you skip the "intervals" or stick with them but make them slower...that could be hard for me. My schedule has me doing 10 x 440's at 5K pace next Tuesday, what about those?

Thanks for your concern and your advice.

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posted Apr-25-2007 08:51 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spareribs:

Liz, this afternoon I will post some exercises for shin splints, and for now I wouldn't stress it, even with a brisk walk if you are still feeling discomfort. I was not aware you have been bothered by them before, so this is what it is. When you run, do your feet "slap"? That is, make a slapping sound as the feet hit the pavement? Or would you describe yourself as a quiet runner? More on this later.

I am off to the track today. And yes, did we get storms! I don't get all that nervous about tornados as there are lots of warnings but seldom any tornados, but hail is very common and it is big down here. When you get it, it destroys your roof. Spareribs[/B]

---

Ah, Mr. Ribs, here is hoping your roof is well...they can be expensive to replace!!!

I truly had forgotten that I used to get shin splints...until I was reviewing my running histroy since the beginning of time , that is how long ago it was.

I have been told, and I beleive, that I am a quiet runner, even the tourists don't hear me coming

I have some housework x-training to do this a.m., that should keep me in shape.

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posted Apr-25-2007 09:05 AM            

If Boston was a hard race, then maybe he would need a
month to recover. If it it was a 26 mile training run, maybe 2
weeks. Bob recovers a lot faster than me. I would still be
limping and dragging my butt.

I once raced a 10k the day after running the Detroit Marathon,
and I got injured.

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posted Apr-25-2007 09:22 AM            

Now that the temps. down here are beginning to inch upward - it was 70 degrees with 73% humidity at 4:45 AM - I'll likely start slowing down some at equivalent BPMs. But that's not really so bad as it really facilitates base-building which is what I need to do the next few months.

SpareRibs, in my 5K RR you mentioned that I could do a 21:42 if I was willing to work on the 5K a bit. Though I'm not averse to pushing myself, I'm not at all sure I want to target too many 5K's. But I do realize that they are important from a speed perspective. Did you have some specific workouts in mind that you would like to see me do? Or were you just slyly challenging me to push myself?

Bill

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posted Apr-25-2007 09:23 AM            

My total for the week is now 19 miles. Any ideas for my beginning strength training? # of days per week?

Ribs, good to hear you weathered the storm. Liz, take care of yourself. We'll find a race. Bob there isn't much I can say except "WOW!"

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posted Apr-25-2007 09:27 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by fredurie:
Bob, is breaking 6 minutes at the end of some of his runs,
so 90 second 400's are not that hard.

If Boston was a hard race, then maybe he would need a
month to recover. If it it was a 26 mile training run, maybe 2
weeks. Bob recovers a lot faster than me. I would still be
limping and dragging my butt.

I once raced a 10k the day after running the Detroit Marathon,
and I got injured.

---

Fred I think the reason that I may recover faster than you is probably two fold:

1 - I don't run all my runs near as fast and hard as you.

2 - I am only just finishing my 4th year of running versus those of you with many decades under your belts.

I will take everything in guys, believe me the last thing I want is an injury. I want to be consistent this season, well actually I want to get consistently faster as most all of us do, but I really believe I have the ability to lower my 5K & 10K times substatially. I was looking forward to running the New England Mile in June this year to see what I could do but just learned that I have to travel to San Diego for a convention and fly out on the day of that race....oh well they actually have a 5K road race for those attending the convention so I already registered for that.

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posted Apr-25-2007 09:35 AM            

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posted Apr-25-2007 09:39 AM            

Today the last 2 miles were just under 6 and it was the first
time I was feeling OK in 3 weeks.

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posted Apr-25-2007 09:43 AM               

But I like to read all opinions too so I posted in Boomers and Beyond.

You guys can reply here or there. But please, vote early vote and vote often.
-CRaig

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum13/HTML/009736.shtml

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posted Apr-25-2007 09:52 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ileneforward:
Buerger1, you run extremely fast for a guy who is so very tall! Your marathon times and your 5Ks are impressive enough that I don't think you should change your training at all.

I ran hills on Monday night, then went to the track last night; 1 mile @ 5k pace, then 1320, 800, 800, 400 harder, and 100m intervals. I have also started walking 1.3 miles briskly at lunchtime. This should make me faster, but so far I am just very tired.

---

Great workout Ilene.

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posted Apr-25-2007 09:55 AM            

You might want to consider a rest day (or at least a very easy recovery day) tomorrow. Hills one day followed by those Intervals the next is a lot. No wonder you're tired. I'm tired just reading it.

Bill

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posted Apr-25-2007 09:58 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by fredurie:
Bob, the real gains at 5k come from running 1000's to mile
reps that hurt, ie. 3 times a mile at sub 6 with a 3 minute
recovery. Week one you just run 1 mile and you increase the
workload over time.

---

I hear you Fred, and I think that my ub 20 5K last summer can be attributed to those hard workouts I did last year. I do have a couple of questions:

Since the local High School track is just 2 miles from my house would it be acceptable for me to do an easy 2 mile warm up and an easy 2 mile warm down so that I can maintain my base mileage?

How many times a week would you recommend these types of work outs, once or twice or what?

Thanks

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posted Apr-25-2007 10:00 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ileneforward:
TheProFromDover, this is also Boomers and Beyond, did you mean to post in multisport too?

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Ilene,
No, because this is all about running.
My biking and swimming are fine.
Thank you for asking.
-Criag

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posted Apr-25-2007 10:02 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by bobscamman:
I hear you Fred, and I think that my ub 20 5K last summer can be attributed to those hard workouts I did last year. I do have a couple of questions:

Since the local High School track is just 2 miles from my house would it be acceptable for me to do an easy 2 mile warm up and an easy 2 mile warm down so that I can maintain my base mileage?

How many times a week would you recommend these types of work outs, once or twice or what?

Thanks

---

Bob, once a week.

The other beneficial workout is 5k at current 5k race pace
plus plus 30 seconds a mile.

Your marathon training and Boston race can be considered
a base phase.

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