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Yes we know that SEARCH isn't working. It's by design


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Author Topic:   Yes we know that SEARCH isn't working. It's by design
NHSenior
Cool Runner
posted Jan-16-2006 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NHSenior     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We have temporarily turned off the SEARCH feature in the forums.

"WE" need some of the server cycles today ourselves. It's no holiday around here and we've got some work to do.

Sorry for the issue, but a lot of our focus lately is on the site performance and if we have to compete with the users for the resources we'll never get the site performance issue fixed.

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NHSenior
Cool Runner
posted Jan-16-2006 03:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NHSenior     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Search is active again. Since it among all server processes is the most intensive, it will be made unavailable from time to time in the future until we sort out some performance problems.

ETA on that soluntion is unknown.

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NHSenior
Cool Runner
posted Jan-16-2006 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NHSenior     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NHSenior:
Search is active again..


No good deed shall go unpunished.

Search was instantly abused, so it's off again.

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popnfresh
Cool Runner
posted Jan-16-2006 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for popnfresh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so is this some joker hammering your servers search functions and causing lag (errr... is that what a DoS attack is then?)?

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NHSenior
Cool Runner
posted Jan-16-2006 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NHSenior     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by popnfresh:
so is this some joker hammering your servers search functions and causing lag (errr... is that what a DoS attack is then?)?

Well, at times we strongly suspect that it may be malicious.
That can be pretty much determined by examining various facts known about the requests which are made. We have not spent that much time in that area however

Some of it is innocent enough but human nature may be just drawing people to do a useless search just to see it "seach" really was turned back on.

[This message has been edited by NHSenior (edited Jan-16-2006).]

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NHSenior
Cool Runner
posted Jan-16-2006 08:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NHSenior     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by popnfresh:
so is this some joker hammering your servers search functions and causing lag (errr... is that what a DoS attack is then?)?

We also have some plain old "based on success" volume issues.

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lioness1
Cool Runner
posted Jan-24-2006 11:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lioness1   Click Here to Email lioness1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks as if it suddenly went off. It was on...I started to use it... and poof! gone! Then go back... and no search link. I didn't break something, did I?

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NHSenior
Cool Runner
posted Jan-24-2006 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NHSenior     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lioness1:
Looks as if it suddenly went off. It was on...I started to use it... and poof! gone! Then go back... and no search link. I didn't break something, did I?

Search is turned off during heavy usage periods.

In the various time zones in the USA the following things create heavy usage periods.

Coffee Breaks

people visit CR 15 minutes before lunch breaks end

Then later in the day there is a "Gee, I think I'll check CR before I go home" load. [grin]

For CR popularity, that is a good thing, but that is a double edged sword. During those periods, if we leave the search option on, smoke starts coming out of the server and at some indeterminate point response time climbs toward the moon.


[This message has been edited by NHSenior (edited Jan-24-2006).]

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pmbooks
Cool Runner
posted Jan-31-2006 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pmbooks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is the first website I've ever heard of having such issues with too many searches. Are the servers from the 1970s? Is CR being purposefully sabotaged/hacked in some way? Surely there must be a way to design your searches so they're a bit more complicated/difficult to execute, that way the user will limit their searches to now and again. For example, every now and then I want to read some thoughts on some shoe or other, or a particular brand of hydration pack. Go ahead and make the search function a step or two more difficult...wouldn't that be a solution better than nixing it altogether?

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to be "looking a gift horse in the mouth," that is, I am truly appreciative of Cool Running and all the people behind it (I'm pretty sure the forum admins are not getting paid for their work).

I just seems odd that this function should have to be removed, like shutting water for several hours a day during a drought. But what the heck, I'm not a computer programmer.

------------------
Moi

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jgilberAZ
Cool Runner
posted Jan-31-2006 10:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jgilberAZ   Click Here to Email jgilberAZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's the problem:

"smoke starts coming out of the server"

The server? Surely, you jest. You're running this site on one server? What is it, a DL360 running windows? Time to upgrade to a unix cluster (pick an OS, they're all better than windoze).

------------------
Me, my log, and my website

[This message has been edited by jgilberAZ (edited Jan-31-2006).]

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NHSenior
Cool Runner
posted Jan-31-2006 10:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NHSenior     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pmbooks:
...... I just seems odd that this function should have to be removed, like shutting water for several hours a day during a drought. But what the heck, I'm not a computer programmer.


If you were a computer programmer, it would(should) not be unfamiliar for you to work with some off-the-shelf software that you then modify to add some features.

When you do that you make upgrading to a more current version of the off-the-shelf software very difficult if not impossible.

The forum software that is being used is a older version which uses very inefficient flat text files to store the data, where the newer version of the software uses a real normalized SQL database to store the data.

Coolrunning's volume of use is so far beyond the design capabilities of older data storage technology that the designer is surprised that the server does not get overloaded more than it does.

Your analogy of shutting off the water isn't the same thing.
If you shut off the water, there is no water. We didn't shut off the water, we just turned off the ability to fill the bath tubs, hot tubs and swimming pools. You can still fill a drinking glass, shower using a reasonable flow shower head and brush your teeth.

>>>>Surely there must be a way to design your searches so they're a bit more complicated/difficult to execute

Someone who designed and implemented something like that on my watch would be looking for a job. That's an insult to people's intelligence, though it would never be noticed the CH forum. [grin]

We don't believe in blowing smoke around the problem. We have a real capacity issue because of the search feature. Without it, we could double our usage, with it we cant' sustain what we have. The decision to shut it off is really easy because that has to be the decision at this point in time. I don't like it either because I need to use search quite often.

We are working on changing the aforementioned modification so the newer version of the forum software can be used. Hopefully, then even the "Search ALL" option wouldn't be an issue.

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NHSenior
Cool Runner
posted Jan-31-2006 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NHSenior     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jgilberAZ:
Here's the problem:

"smoke starts coming out of the server"

[b]The server? Surely, you jest. You're running this site on one server? What is it, a DL360 running windows? Time to upgrade to a unix cluster (pick an OS, they're all better than windoze).

[/B]


Of course there is no smoke. I sometimes use the term "blood starts running out on the floor in front of the box"

So right away windoze must be the culprit, is that it? Ah, the religious wars.

Actually, the server is one of the latest Sun boxes at the top of its particular model range. Maxed out for memory and disk swap space. The OS is Unix. The CR user load would surprise many.

Having modified the forum software to be processor independent of the rest of CR site would have been a good idea. It wasn't so clustering isn't much help at the moment.

[This message has been edited by NHSenior (edited Feb-01-2006).]

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jgilberAZ
Cool Runner
posted Feb-01-2006 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jgilberAZ   Click Here to Email jgilberAZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was just "teasing." I am a Sun certified system administrator, so I know all about the religious wars. I know my colleagues will frown at this, but . . . there are some uses for which Windows is the correct choice. A homogeneous environment is the better choice, IMHO.

I've been to this site many times and at many different times of the day. I have seen very few performance issues. I'd say you guys are doing a pretty good job of keeping up with capacity. Growing pains are an indication that you must be doing something right.

------------------
Me, my log, and my website

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NHSenior
Cool Runner
posted Feb-01-2006 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NHSenior     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jgilberAZ:
I was just "teasing." I am a Sun certified system administrator, so I know all about the religious wars. I know my colleagues will frown at this, but . . . there are some uses for which Windows is the correct choice. A homogeneous environment is the better choice, IMHO.


I figured you where doing it good-naturedly.

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Daft
Cool Runner
posted Feb-09-2006 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daft     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm new to this forum and I'd really like to use the 'search' function. I'm not new to UBB forums however. I find that these other forums limit their search function per user by a time and also a minimum character search. For example, the user logged is not allowed to use search more than once in a 30 second period and the search keyword has to be longer than 4 characters (shorter keywords take longer and hog more resources). Another CPU saver would be only registered users and not guests are allowed to use search.

Being a sys admin I'm sure you've thought of these things but hey maybe you haven't...

------------------
Profile

[This message has been edited by Daft (edited Feb-09-2006).]

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NHSenior
Cool Runner
posted Feb-09-2006 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NHSenior     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Daft:
I'm new to this forum and I'd really like to use the 'search' function. I'm not new to UBB forums however. I find that these other forums limit their search function per user by a time and also a minimum character search. .......

We've tried everything you can imagine.

The number of concurrent users that Coolrunning is trying to put through the version of UBB software that we have is beyond it's capabilities by double.

Throwing obscene amounts of money at a more powerful server and turning off search is letting us keep the server up.

Keeping the server up is rule number 1 around here.

Rule number 2 is interesting. It states that when there appears to be external pressures to do something politically correct, see rule #1.

This all isn't making us very happy either. We need search waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than anyone.

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LewJ
Cool Runner
posted Feb-14-2006 08:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LewJ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
This all isn't making us very happy either. We need search waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than anyone.

I'm glad you're looking at it, but understand that as a newbie to running the lack of a search function severely limits the utility of this site.

The articles are nice, but they are limited. The true value of a site like this lies in the wealth of knowledge, experiences, and opinions stored in the archived discussions. All of which is useless when it cannot be searched.

-- Lew

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MarkOB
Member
posted Feb-15-2006 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MarkOB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,

I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. I just thought that I would sign up to share this nugget in here.

If people are truly desperate to search the site they can use google to accomplish this. You can tell google to search a specific website. e.g. I wanted to find all posts related to Asics GT2100 shoes at coolrunning so I went to google.com and I typed in:

site:coolrunning.com "Asics GT2100"

and I get the following results:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Acoolrunning.com+%22Asics+GT2100%22

I hope this helps in the short term.

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LewJ
Cool Runner
posted Feb-15-2006 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LewJ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MarkOB:
If people are truly desperate to search the site they can use google to accomplish this. You can tell google to search a specific website.

site:coolrunning.com "Asics GT2100"


Indeed, that is a workaround that works reasonably well - Thanks for posting it.

The only thing is I find I have to look at the cached version since the direct link from Google keeps coming up with a Page Not Found from this site, I suppose due to the discussion having been moved to the archive. And while the cached page is certainly useful, it is frustrating to be unable to go to other pages of the thread. (At least I've not found a way).

-- Lew

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StarrRuns
Cool Runner
posted Feb-15-2006 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarrRuns   Click Here to Email StarrRuns     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LewJ:
Indeed, that is a workaround that works reasonably well - Thanks for posting it.

The only thing is I find I have to look at the cached version since the direct link from Google keeps coming up with a Page Not Found from this site, I suppose due to the discussion having been moved to the archive. And while the cached page is certainly useful, it is frustrating to be unable to go to other pages of the thread. (At least I've not found a way).

-- Lew


I miss the search function too, but Mark seems to have a good way to search the cool running posts.

One way to get to the restof the pages is to simply reply to the post. This will bump it to the top of the threads. From there you can get to page 2 and beyond.... At least it has worked for me on threads that seemed "locked" on page one.

Starr

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spkoest
Cool Runner
posted Feb-16-2006 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spkoest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You might put your searches in more of a Batch mode rather than interactively showing your results. You can then control the amount of resources that gets assigned to the batch processing. So you provide the search it just might take longer. You could then put the results to the requestors email address. The off the shelf software you mention might limit you from doing this but that is how I would approach the problem as a system designer....my day job....Good luck.

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pcsronbo
Cool Runner
posted Feb-17-2006 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pcsronbo   Click Here to Email pcsronbo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also consider some additional, mandatory limiters into the search which would reduce the search set. Then again, if it's all flat file, it's blow anyway

I do agree, search very valuable, so worth the effort to figure it out. Can you leave the link and in instead of going into the search, it displays a note saying what is going on? "i.e. hey due to heavy volume this is off right now, try again later"

just a thought, not everyone knows about the Suggestion box - and those who are newest are probably those who want/need the search.

Whatever, rock on.

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kuan
Cool Runner
posted Apr-12-2007 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kuan   Click Here to Email kuan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can't you make google search your site?

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paulrad9
Cool Runner
posted Oct-16-2007 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for paulrad9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump because every good American forum deserves a search feature.

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ddgeow
Cool Runner
posted Nov-03-2007 12:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ddgeow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MarkOB:
If people are truly desperate to search the site they can use google to accomplish this. You can tell google to search a specific website. e.g. I wanted to find all posts related to Asics GT2100 shoes at coolrunning so I went to google.com and I typed in:

site:coolrunning.com "Asics GT2100"

and I get the following results:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Acoolrunning.com+%22Asics+GT2100%22



I typed in:

site:coolrunning.com "Asics GT2100"

and I got the following result:

The webpage cannot be displayed

Most likely cause:
Some content or files on this webpage require a program that you don't have installed.

What you can try:
Search online for a program you can use to view this web content.

Retype the address.

Go back to the previous page.


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