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Morton's Neuroma ARGH!


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foxyw
Cool Runner
posted Aug-29-2007 07:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for foxyw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My pain started at the bottom of my foot but I did end up with pain at the top of my foot and across my toe several months after the injections. While I was having the injections, it was always at the bottom of my foot which is where the pain orginally began. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I believe that the alcohol shots aggravated the problem in my right foot. The doc is injecting into the nerve and/or the area adjacent to the nerve so the irritation from the shot can move the pain around depending on exactly where the injection was done.

I agree that wearing dress shoes every day will most likely continue to aggravate the neuroma problem. Many orthotic companies sell orthotics for dress shoes. I had good luck using PowerStep dress orthotics but the shoes need to be somewhat roomy to fit these in. I'm fortunate that I have changed jobs (I now work at a university) and can wear sneakers or casual shoes to work every day.

Regarding surgery... Would I do it again? Yes, most likely sooner than I did but that's a conclusion that you need to come to yourself. My recovery has been slow but steady. The good news for everyone but me is that my recovery appears to be slow as compared to the experience of many others. If you have a "Mulder's click" associated with the neuroma, the shots may help the pain but may not necessarily reduce the size of the neuroma to the point that the click goes away. In that case, the general day to day pain may be alleviated but the click can still cause pain under certain conditions like running or with some footwear. This is the case with my left foot which may eventually also require surgery.

Please remember that people don't generally enter a discussion forum about neuromas to say how well everything went, though we would all love to hear their success stories. For every person that has ongoing neuroma issues, there are many post-surgery success stories out there that we never hear from who are happily back to running and hiking after a couple of months, sometimes more, sometimes less, of recovery.

Best wishes to all! Pat

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ShelleyM
Cool Runner
posted Aug-30-2007 04:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShelleyM   Click Here to Email ShelleyM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My 5th injection was yesterday. I didn't ask about surgery. I did ask if the swelling in the toes will ever go down and he said yes. I told him my pain level is down to a 3, which is good compared to the 8 and 9 it was. He also approved of the Fit Flops I have been wearing when not at work.

I think the main question we all have on this forum is will we ever be able to run the distances that we used to? Right now, even 1 mile would be more than what I have done in a year. Does the surgery really get you back to running? I used to run up to 50 miles per week. I would love to be able to just go out for a short 5 mile run several times per week within the next few months. If surgery can do that, I am all for it. If not, I may as well go for the injections that I have been having and be happy with the minimal pain I am in.

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RunTimRun
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posted Aug-30-2007 09:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunTimRun   Click Here to Email RunTimRun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Shelley. If the surgery was 100% succesful, with 0 risk of complications, I wouldn't hesitate; in fact, I think that is where I am headed. But my Dr.'s approach, and it makes sense to me, is to first try less invasive procedures.

The alchohol injections, according to what I have read, have a pretty good success rate too, so I think it has been worth the time to give that a try.

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Elizabeth78
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posted Aug-30-2007 09:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elizabeth78     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe I just have an extremely high tolerance for pain, but I was able to run 11 miles a few days after my second injection. Keep in mind, I have two neuromas, on each side of my big toe, and they measured at 5mm each.

My run wasn't painful, but it wasn't comfortable either. I am using Super Feet insoles, and they seem to help.

Before the injections, however, I could barely walk. Just walking across my office was a major struggle, and one day I broke down crying in the middle of a shopping mall.

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ShelleyM
Cool Runner
posted Aug-30-2007 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShelleyM   Click Here to Email ShelleyM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, Elizabeth! I can't imagine running right now. For one thing, my husband would kill me! You really must have a very high tolerance for pain. That's great!

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runawayjesse
Cool Runner
posted Aug-30-2007 07:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for runawayjesse     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ShelleyM:
My 5th injection was yesterday. I didn't ask about surgery. I did ask if the swelling in the toes will ever go down and he said yes. I told him my pain level is down to a 3, which is good compared to the 8 and 9 it was. He also approved of the Fit Flops I have been wearing when not at work.

I think the main question we all have on this forum is will we ever be able to run the distances that we used to? Right now, even 1 mile would be more than what I have done in a year. Does the surgery really get you back to running? I used to run up to 50 miles per week. I would love to be able to just go out for a short 5 mile run several times per week within the next few months. If surgery can do that, I am all for it. If not, I may as well go for the injections that I have been having and be happy with the minimal pain I am in.


But did he approve of your work shoes?

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bboywannabe
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posted Aug-31-2007 03:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bboywannabe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Try to avoid surgery at all costs

The only reason I'll never do the surgery is because there'll be a permanent numbness

Exhaust all options (cryo, alcohol, etc.) before you go for it

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ShelleyM
Cool Runner
posted Aug-31-2007 05:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShelleyM   Click Here to Email ShelleyM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jesse-No, he doesn't approve of my work shoes. He said he said not to blame him if this doesn't work. I am trying my best to wear good stable flat shoes.

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foxyw
Cool Runner
posted Aug-31-2007 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for foxyw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The numbness is far easier to deal with than the nasty neuroma pain. I had a neuroma in the 3rd/4th space on my right foot and the numbness after surgery is around the incision and on the right side of my middle toe and a small area just under my 3rd and 4th toes. I too thought I could avoid surgery but eventually the pain was too much and the non-invasive treatments did not alleviate it. The numbness is definitely weird but better than the alternative.

My foot is continuing to improve in small increments each day. I've really had good luck with Keen shoes with my custom orthotics. I think the soles are rigid enough that they provide good support when coupled with the orthotics. Too bad Keen doesn't make dress shoes.

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Elizabeth78
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posted Aug-31-2007 10:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elizabeth78     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ShelleyM:
Wow, Elizabeth! I can't imagine running right now. For one thing, my husband would kill me! You really must have a very high tolerance for pain. That's great!

My doctor told me that running on it would not make the neuroma worse, but it might obviously hurt. It's not like a stress fracture where you need to stay off of it for it to heal. So, given that, I will run unless it's excrutiating pain. (Just call me an addict).

My pain keeps rotating back and forth from the ball of my foot, to the top of my foot! I swear, every day I wake up and the pain is in a different area. I do have two neuromas, but still. Today is a good day. Pain is minimal, I didn't go running today in the hopes of getting a long run in tomorrow.

I read somewhere online (in fact, I read this in more than one place online) that the alcohol sclerosing injections have a 90% success rate. I am hoping they will be successful for me. My doctor has not even mentioned surgery to me yet, and was confident that these injections would work. I am optimistic, because I have only had two sets of injections and the relief is remarkable.

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Elizabeth78
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posted Aug-31-2007 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elizabeth78     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are some articles:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10614611&dopt=AbstractPlus

http://www.regence.com/trgmedpol/medicine/med113.html

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/557978

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foxyw
Cool Runner
posted Aug-31-2007 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for foxyw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The alcohol shots are definitely worth trying. In addition to reducing the pain, they will also often decrease the size of the neuroma which will help reduce the occurrence of any clicking (Mulder's click) which can be quite painful. In my case, the clicking was significantly reduced with the shots but not eliminated so certain footwear can cause pain.

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TedAndresen
Cool Runner
posted Sep-01-2007 05:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TedAndresen   Click Here to Email TedAndresen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[I‘ve been able to control my Morton’s Neuroma by doing the following:

I avoid walking on hard surfaces with my bare feet. I always wear slippers or soft in-house shoes.

I cut a 1” hole in the insole of my shoe just under the end of the metatarsal where the neuroma is located so the neuroma is unsupported and free to expand down below the rest of the fascia.

I added heel gels to my shoes so that I take more of the impact load at foot strike off the fore-foot.

I started the laces on my shoes at the third eyelet up from the bottom so that the toe-box is very loose.

I also shopped for shoes that had netting around the sides of the toe box in line with the ends of the metatarsals. This design allows the toe box and hence the spacing between the metatarsals to expand during toe-off.

Ted

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ShelleyM
Cool Runner
posted Sep-01-2007 06:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShelleyM   Click Here to Email ShelleyM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Elizabeth-Do you get in burning in your toes while running? That's the major reason I haven't been running. The burning gets really bad. Of course, I haven't tried it lately, but I'm also afraid to. It has been 3 days since my 5th injection and I have no pain. My foot is very swollen though. I will be going for a bike ride shortly, so I'll be able to tell if it starts hurting while biking (it usually does after the 1st 10 or 12 miles.) I wear bike shoes that clip into the pedals.

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ShelleyM
Cool Runner
posted Sep-01-2007 08:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShelleyM   Click Here to Email ShelleyM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just got back from my ride and no pain!! I am so excited!!

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RunTimRun
Member
posted Sep-03-2007 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunTimRun   Click Here to Email RunTimRun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shelley- I'm thrilled for you!! I hope this is a trend.

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ShelleyM
Cool Runner
posted Sep-03-2007 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShelleyM   Click Here to Email ShelleyM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Today's ride wasn't so great. My toe has been burning. Not hurting, just burning.

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char11
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posted Sep-03-2007 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for char11   Click Here to Email char11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It has been good to read about everybody's different experience w/ these neuromas. I started running a year ago and once I got up to about 3 miles I began to experience the burning, numbing. By 5 miles its pretty bad pain, especially when I push off the balls of my feet. Went to a podiatrist last year before doing a 15k and tried the inserts, etc. The pain started at mile 5 and eventually went numb (ouch) which allowed me to finish.

Anyway, I got a cortisone injection in the foot that was worse and it helped a lot. That was about 4 months ago and now its back but it both feet. I have committed to training for my first marathon, but am afraid this pain will interfere. Today I started feeling the pain around 4-5 miles and managed to finish but w/ a lot of pain at 8 miles.

The shoes I am wearing are asics 2120. For mild-moderate pronation. (Fitted at a running shoe store). My 2nd toe is a little longer than the first.

Sorry this is so long, but I guess I'm wondering if there are any suggestions to minimize the pain but not stop me from sticking to my training schedule. It's still pretty early so I've got some time. I wonder if there are shoes that are better for neuromas. Gonna ask the pod about the alcolol ablation, but wondered how those might interefere w/ my running. Also considering the posture inserts, but have bought so much of that stuff that I could probably open up my own shop. Geez. Now that I finally enjoy exercising, my feet aren't coorperating. So frustrating!

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bboywannabe
Member
posted Sep-03-2007 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bboywannabe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Asics shoes are the devil. It's the reason I got my neuroma in the first place. To be exact, they were asics-gel, which are shoes for over-pronation. What I should've got was Brooks Beast. It has a wider toe box and deals with pronation also.

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ShelleyM
Cool Runner
posted Sep-04-2007 04:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ShelleyM   Click Here to Email ShelleyM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What's wierd is mine started in Aasic's also. I can't run anymore, but my running shoes are now Brook's Dyads. I am told these are great for othodics (that's why I got them) and have a wider toe box.

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foxyw
Cool Runner
posted Sep-04-2007 05:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for foxyw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Asics running shoes did me in too! Prior to that I had worn Brooks Adrenaline GTS. I have found that using orthotics in running shoes that are made to correct for overpronation can make it easy to turn my ankle - it's almost like they are overcorrecting. Make sure that you have plenty of room in the toe box of your shoes and if you use inserts or orthotics, be sure that there is plenty of room for them in the shoe.

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motherof4
Cool Runner
posted Sep-04-2007 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for motherof4     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I got mine in Asics Gel nimbus. The numbness from the surgery is nothing. Do you really notice it? I only notice it when I am itching in that area or cutting my toenail and hold my toes.
I am just returning to running now after 4 months off with a rod inserted in my tibia from a stress fx resulting from over compenstating for the neuroma (I trained and ran a marathon through the pain.) Running won't make the neuroma worse, but because of the pain we tend to run through we do other things to our bodies.

Also I had problems before with Brooks and tendiontitis (spelling?) with them not being felxible enough. Any other suggestions for shoes with big toe boxes to avoid future neuromas.

Thanks!

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Elizabeth78
Member
posted Sep-04-2007 12:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elizabeth78     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ShelleyM:
Elizabeth-Do you get in burning in your toes while running? That's the major reason I haven't been running. The burning gets really bad. Of course, I haven't tried it lately, but I'm also afraid to. It has been 3 days since my 5th injection and I have no pain. My foot is very swollen though.

No burning in my toes, but a little bit of pain on the ball of my foot. You should try running. The doctor said that as long as nothing is bio mechanically wrong, then running is fine.

I have been wearing Brooks Adrenaline GTS for over 2 years, and suddenly got the Neuromas. I think I tie my shoes too tight. I actually might consider getting NARROW shoes so that I don't feel the need to tie them so tightly. I'm using the Green Superfeet insoles with the Adrenalines, and they are working great. I've heard that this can cause shin problems from too much support, but I have been okay so far. 15 miles on Saturday and the pain was bearable.

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RunTimRun
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posted Sep-06-2007 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RunTimRun   Click Here to Email RunTimRun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, seems like we have a pattern here. Asics for me too. I did run 2 marathons in the Asics Keyano XI, but the neuroma developed when they switched to XII, which is more lightweight.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Elizabeth78:
[B] No burning in my toes, but a little bit of pain on the ball of my foot. You should try running. The doctor said that as long as nothing is bio mechanically wrong, then running is fine.

Same kind of ball of foot pain for me. More of a bruised feeling than burning. I tried to run through it but it so affected my gait that it started to mess up my other leg. Running on grass did help, and that's where I plan to start when I return, though I don't think I will try running again until I am able to do it without the limp. Motherof4's experience confirms that for me.

I continue to make slow progress, but am still walking with a limp. I have found the mortonsfoot.com insoles to help more than anything else, so I use them all the time.

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Elizabeth78
Member
posted Sep-06-2007 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elizabeth78     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had my 3rd set of injections on Tuesday and they made a huge difference. Today my pain during my run was minimal, actually located closer toward the ankle! It keeps moving around, but the doctor said it was normal for the area of pain to move. That does not mean the neuroma is moving.

I am definitely sticking with the Superfeet insoles. I tried running today without them and I felt like the shoe was too soft. I know most people like the cushiony feel, but I am a fan of a firmer insole.

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