posted Jan-15-2006 10:20 PM
Congrats Roly..... nicely done !! Personally I can't imagine spending that much time on a TM
Nothing much to report here other than being pretty tired, I may stiffen up overnight... we'll see. The balance of my day was pretty busy... I managed to get in 15 minutes on the sofa.... Weekly supermarket run, family over for diner, kids etc, etc, etc, ..... dont these people understand.
As for the details of the TMM... way back after the Ottawa marathon, or was the Miami one last year, my performance was analysed by C. who doesnt post here any more. He basically pointed out that I didn't eat, drink or take in enough electrolytes....... he was probably right .... so this I did this morning, very carefully. Result = no bonk, neg splits and picked up the pace slightly for the last 3 miles.....
As always I probably could've sqeezed out a little more... but that wasn't the object of the exercise..... I was there to keep Roly company....
Huge thanks to Montreal's Funkiest Gym.... FIT FOR LIFE ROCKS !!!
..... thankyou Sally for the beautiful cake, my wonderful medal and your warm hospitality. We're all very luck to have you looking after us!!
the experiment continues
grommit
added the next morning.... everything seems normal, a tad stiff but nothing a couple of advil wont fix..... wrap up warm today if you're going out -29 with the wind brrrrrrrr !!
[This message has been edited by grommit (edited Jan-16-2006).]
quote:Originally posted by grommit: Congrats Roly..... nicely done !! Personally I can't imagine spending that much time on a TM As always I probably could've sqeezed out a little more... but that wasn't the object of the exercise..... I was there to keep Roly company...
..... thankyou Sally for the beautiful cake, my wonderful medal and your warm hospitality. We're all very luck to have you looking after us!!
the experiment continues
grommit
[This message has been edited by grommit (edited Jan-16-2006).]
Thanks again G for being there and trying to help keep the mind distracted for the last 5 miles.
I promise I'll start working on running more on the toes and less on the flats of my feet.
Sally you have to post a photo with those lovely race medals you made for us.
The legs are a little sore and tight waking up today so I stretched for a bit and that seemed to help. Had a big water blister on one of my left toes, thats a first. Alkso feels like I might end up losing the toenail on the big toe of the left foot feels sentative to the touch.
Roly
[This message has been edited by rolyone (edited Jan-16-2006).]
posted Jan-16-2006 09:12 AM
Mars: You are describing Grommit's stride pattern (high back kick + jumpy motion). Size + weight differences + bad back condition are all calling for softer surface landing at least during transition... I luv that $hit...
posted Jan-16-2006 09:35 AM
Grommit - it was Miami - how the devil I remembered that ? Because I was taken aback when you mentioned your night before dinner (vietnamese noodles) , and the watered down sports drink during the race.
Speaking of C, wish he would occasionally drop in, his contributions got some of us to try new products, (by that I'm not referring to his taste in wine )but with the exception of new years wishes, nada. Men and their fragile egos...
Mars - TB runs like that as well, and I am trying it but with not much success.
Glad to see Roly and Gro aren't doing to badly...Roly, could your shoes be the problem ? C/Imelda, any comments on that ?
Have an excellent day - anyone brave enough to run outdoors ?
quote:Originally posted by Mr Lambchops: Mars: You are describing Grommit's stride pattern (high back kick + jumpy motion). Size + weight differences + bad back condition are all calling for softer surface landing at least during transition... I luv that $hit...
it saves on shoe wear as well.... I used to destroy shoes in less than 300 miles, the outside edge of the heel would be totally worn..... these days the uppers may give out first !..... I imagine this translates into less chance of injury & faster reccuperation.... lets hope anyway
quote:Originally posted by Mr Lambchops: The Meister knows his classics. How are you Ralph ? Is Germany treating you good so far ?
Yes, Germany is treating me good. However, my legs are not treating me well (or is it the inverse?). I have stopped running 10 days ago. After the dragon run I developed a slight pain on the front of my right shin. More exactly, this pain was there already before after hard workouts. But it always went away on the following restdays. Now, when it didn't go away after my running pause in December, I started to take this more serious. After christmas I began to take Ibuprofen. Now, 10 days ago I decided that it was time to go to the doctor. My physician gave me without problems a transfer to the orthopedist which I am going to see on Wednesday. My own diagnosis is "frontal shin splint". However, there are other (nastier) possibilities. Under the influence of Diclofenac (= Voltaren) the inflammation went away within two days. Nevertheless, I am not going to run before I spoke to the orthopedist.
Mars, this is quite a coincidence. This weekend I started to read a book of Matthias Marquardt. He is author of several books and he has ideas along the same line as Romanoff (I think, at least. I don't know the Pose method very well) (and Th. Miller, for that matter). In the book I am reading he gives very detailed information about biomechanics and anatomy. From that he argues very well, why running on your forefoot is advantageous and less injury prone if you do it correctly. However, he warns to try simply to change your stride. Changing your stride in this direction puts a lot more stress on some muscles not trained for this. He proposes a training program of 3 to 5 month with very little running, but a lot of stretching, strength training and drills. Since you are very well trained, you might get away without that. However, I don't dare this. Since I am probably anyway missing the races I had planned for this spring, I am thinking to give his program a try. But first I have to wait what the doctor says. And the Jungfrau Marathon is definitely not on my schedule for the next years.
TB, are we going to make our own Montreal thread in the Med Tent? How's the PF doing? Are we are going to drink some Bud?
Best regards
Ralf
P.S.: Grommit - Yes, short light strides and landing on the forefoot is supposed to reduce injury. Congrats to you and Roly for your TMM.
------------------ Follow your nose
[This message has been edited by RalfM (edited Jan-16-2006).]
posted Jan-16-2006 02:53 PM
Gro - yep, will copy a few things and try to get it back to you this week. Interesting what you had to say about the condition of your shoes, considering your mileage..
Roly - where is the TM Marathon thread ?...thxs.
Ralf - sorry to hear about your problem, hope your next appt will give you more information on what it is.
quote:Originally posted by Mr Lambchops: Mars: You are describing Grommit's stride pattern (high back kick + jumpy motion). Size + weight differences + bad back condition are all calling for softer surface landing at least during transition... I luv that $hit...
Indeed, Grommit's stride does fit the description well. But I would add that the jumpy motion is not mentioned in Romanov's work and in the "Pose" technique, and I'm not looking to add that in. I think I'm doing a good job of minimizing vertical movement even if the feet are coming up higher. I think the key image to visualize is that of the knee serving as the pivot point of the pendulum.
BTW, are you calling me fat? I may have 55-60 lbs on Grommit, but I resent you making explicit comments about my weight...
Just kidding...
Just came back from a trail run at Red Rock Canyon this morning. Up to 7 miles out there. God that is some tough terrain. I tried to keep focusing on technique when I could, but trail that rough is pretty much a matter of just putting your feet where you can so you don't kill yourself (had 1 close call this morning), and hills that sharp, well, the only technique you worry about is pumping your arms, or breaking into a walk. But I can tell this will do wonders for my Big Sur training.
I hope to get out there weekly once I get proper trail shoes. I got myself a new pair of Asics (Nimbus VII) just a week ago, with Superfeet insoles, so the January budget for sporting activities has been closed. First week of February, though, I'll be back to pick-up some good trail shoes.
I'm sorry to hear about your shins, Ralf. I hope it's something you can get over quickly. I guess a little cross-training is on the horizon for you too... Just curious, what kind of shoes were you using, and how much mileage did they have?
DF, I know about the frustration of trying to make technical adjustments and not getting anywhere. I have pretty good cycling technique (don't laugh... not anywhere as obvious as most people would think), but running, and even much worse, swimming, have efficiency components that are just so dependant on technique that you know it's tough to improve significantly without tearing down the house... But you have to keep trying... just like this one for me, by far my biggest technical change in 4 or 5 years, you have stuff that comes out of nowhere, and it just fits... But you can't give up on the hope or the search.
quote:Originally posted by mountmars: I'm sorry to hear about your shins, Ralf. I hope it's something you can get over quickly. I guess a little cross-training is on the horizon for you too... Just curious, what kind of shoes were you using, and how much mileage did they have?
The shoes are one pair of GT2100 and one pair of Cumulus. Both are pretty new. What is happening is probably the following: I put my feet on the ground not to far in front of my center of gravity. Nevertheless, as my shoes show, I still manage to strike heel first. However, as one can easily find out, this puts an enormous stress on the muscle in the front of the shin (tibalis anterior). That's the basic idea, why I am thinking to work on my stride. In addition to this, Marquards book has shown me that I probably have some severe weaknesses in the hip region. I hope that strength training and drills can improve this too.
Take care
Ralf
P.S.: Big Sur, Big Sur, hmmmm definitely not this year. Hmmm, Hmmm, Big Sur, Big Sur.....
BTW the legs are still a little sore but felt good enough for a little 6 mile run in 50.38 minutes around the block.
Hey Grommit I've been doing a little math homework tonight and figured out the following for the Vermont 50 miler. with a 12 hour cut off I can run 25 miles say in a a 12.8 min/mile pace then walk 25 miles at a 16 min/mile pace. in around 12 hours Humm maybe???
16 min/mile = about 3.7 speed on the TM 12.8 min/mile = about 4.7 speed on the TM
Roly
edited to say I was just kidding about the 6 mile run I rested
[This message has been edited by rolyone (edited Jan-17-2006).]
posted Jan-16-2006 08:52 PM
.... oh Roly.... I want you to close your eyes for a moment, try to remember how your little legs felt yesterday at mile 24.... then add another 25 [ie 300% shreaded quads] ..... and now your faced with only one more mile... it's up and then its downhill @ about 15% (Ascutney mountain ski resort) ...... your legs dont give a flying f*ck about the maths.... you're gonna love it .... you can open your eyes now
grommit... who didn't run today, but was sorely tempted
posted Jan-16-2006 08:54 PM
Congratulations to both Roly and Grommit with the successful completion of the TM event. I snapped a few pics and forwarded them to the the heroes of the day. I'll let them post them up for all to view.
Thanks to SS for hosting the post race celebration. Love the medals you made.
Ralf: Working on having the bud with. With any luck it won't be a bud in the end. Take care of your shin.
Mars: The foot is healing, slowly but surely. The time off from running and training was not in vain. Aside from recovery, I've spent more time on core work. Yoga and ab work. Ugh the lower abs are so weak.
I've registered for the Nike 1/2. Originally I wanted to run the LaSalle 10km in March but this setback derailed those plans. My focus is for a solid recovery and that precludes any serious speed work. I'll be concentrating on base work for now. During this, "down" time I picked up a book at Endurance, "I run Therefore I'm nuts" Kinda like a, "chicken soup for the soul". It helps inject some levity in the dreary situation that I currently find myself in.
posted Jan-17-2006 04:42 AM
If I understand correctly, I am in a good position, not knowing how to swim because I can learn the right technique if I find the right teacher... right? I might prolong this good position for a while then... but how do you know where to go to learn the right technique?
Anyone else have trouble running outside (I don't have access to indoor running)? It's really really cold (at least it hasn't hit -40 yet) and really slippery out there... Really. Where are the salt trucks? Even the sidewalks are bad. I suggest running on the snow, at least you can grip something. Not ideal to start changing your stride, but I have to say this though : With the winter running, through snow storms and all, I find it changes the stride slightly, forcing you to lift your feet a little higher on a regular basis. Anyone else notice this?
(Yes yes, I know it is beautiful out there in Vegas, Mars... )
quote:Originally posted by grommit: .... oh Roly.... I want you to close your eyes for a moment, try to remember how your little legs felt yesterday at mile 24.... then add another 25 [ie 300% shreaded quads] ..... and now your faced with only one more mile... it's up and then its downhill @ about 15% (Ascutney mountain ski resort) ...... your legs dont give a flying f*ck about the maths.... you're gonna love it .... you can open your eyes now
grommit... who didn't run today, but was sorely tempted
quote:Originally posted by mountmars: Indeed, Grommit's stride does fit the description well. But I would add that the jumpy motion is not mentioned in Romanov's work and in the "Pose" technique, and I'm not looking to add that in.
Grommit's jumpy motion is coming from my own rear view of his butt kicks. From a frontal perspective, the guy is no Skippy, hopefully.
Grommit, Roly: How do you feel about Saturday ? Still ready ? If so, you have to reserve your snowshoes ASAP + add a pair of crampons (BTW I have an additional pair to spare) the temperature swings have added a lot of icing on the cakes.
quote:Originally posted by Mr Lambchops: Grommit's jumpy motion is coming from my own rear view of his butt kicks. From a frontal perspective, the guy is no Skippy, hopefully.
Grommit, Roly: How do you feel about Saturday ? Still ready ? If so, you have to reserve your snowshoes ASAP + add a pair of crampons (BTW I have an additional pair to spare) the temperature swings have added a lot of icing on the cakes.
..... lets leave my buttocks out of this please, they get me from a to b ... and that's what counts
.... as for Saturday: Can we leave early early? shall we take my van? I spoke with the folk at Yeti on St. laurent.... they rent the gear @ $12/day I'll call and reserve.... what should I ask for? ... they had about 5 types to choose from I think...
quote:Originally posted by grommit: as for Saturday: Can we leave early early? shall we take my van? I spoke with the folk at Yeti on St. laurent.... they rent the gear @ $12/day I'll call and reserve.... what should I ask for? ... they had about 5 types to choose from I think...
Departure: Around 6:00AM. If we take your van, take my crampons. I'll adapt them to your shoes. For renting crampons, no step-in unless you have the proper shoes to go with (crampons are necessary over 3,000 feet for the final push up because low artic vegetation allows wind to push snow aside barring thick ice... how beautiful). BTW, I have a good pair of winter hiking boots size 9, very comfy. Any interest ?
Snowshoes: Ask for a day-hike pair with strong front claws to get you up, they should ask for your weight, tell them you'll be carrying more or less 12 lbs in your backpack.
How long will this little adventure take. I will probable have to rent a good coat as well at la Cordee and pick up a better set of gloves. I'll pass by there tonight to reserve by equipement. What mountain are you bringing us to. What type of food do we bring that won't freeze.
How long will this little adventure take. I will probable have to rent a good coat as well at la Cordee and pick up a better set of gloves. I'll pass by there tonight to reserve by equipement. What mountain are you bringing us to. What type of food do we bring that won't freeze.
quote:Originally posted by rolyone: edited to say I was just kidding about the 6 mile run I rested
I'm happy you added that in, cause I would have clobbered you over the head if it had been true. Rumour has it that Grommit is planning to run 8k tonight with intervals, or is that 8 miles?
Here's the TMM pic for those who didn't see the pic on my blog.
Hurley's Thursday, Jan 19, 7pm: We have me, Roly, John, DR and Mercury so far. Who else? Reservation will be under "Montreal Coolrunners", but I need to know ASAP for what number to make it ...
Sally
[This message has been edited by Silly Sally (edited Jan-17-2006).]
posted Jan-17-2006 08:36 PM
It ain't Vegas.. but its lovely out there this evening, not cold, no wind. Think I got back just in time, ice pellets stinging my face on the last stretch...'night.
posted Jan-18-2006 08:04 AM
ss .... it was miles, 60:47. Warmed up for 10mins with mr. sb, stretched for twenty before facing off with the TM, a little creaky for the first couple of miles..... could almost feel sunday's lactic acid waving goodbye.... threw in a couple of faster miles, but wimped out on the intervals. Stretched again afterwards for another fifteen. All is well
Ick.... what's with the rain.... I hope it stops before tonight.... I'm jonesing badly for some fresh air ..... od'ed slightly on the gym of late
posted Jan-18-2006 02:10 PM
Roly...... a brisk walk will do you more good than a 10k run, seriously! trust me on this one. Or if you know mr. sb..... he'll do the trick too. All you need to do is make the blood flow a little [and flush the lactic acid from sunday].... running will risk damaging your muscles which are very much in repair mode at the moment, you wont gain anything , just slow up your recovery.
Pay no attention to what I do to my body [ss is also a terrible example to follow].... well not until about 2008 anyways and then you'll be able to trash your wrinkly old corpse with the best of them
Just to keep you informed: I went to the orthopedist today. The good news it that I do not have a stress fracture or anything worse. The bad news is that I have indeed a shin splint. I forgot to ask whether it is a frontal or a medial one, but from the location of the pain I guess that it is frontal. Three to four weeks no running, a heavy anti-inflammatory and new orthotics. Although I did not feel anything, the doctor could still feel the inflammation in my leg. I take this as a serious warning not to start running to early.
Luckily, I am still allowed to swim and bike. So Mars should be right. Cross training is in the air. In addition to that, I will start to do strength training (excluding the lower legs). Take care
posted Jan-15-2006 10:20 PM
brrrrrrrr !!
)but with the exception of new years wishes, nada. Men and their fragile egos... 
