posted Dec-11-2006 05:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by JasonsDrivingForce:
No man, Congrats to you! That is a fantastic time. My hats off to you. You should be very proud of that! Your training definitely has prepared you well. Let me get some more training in and I might be able to give you and Joel a run for your money in the marathon.

Again, congrats on a truly fabulous race. You must be extremely proud of that effort! Any ideas for a goal for your next marathon?

---

Thanks Travis!

Travis, like you wrote in your post:
"The marathon is no joke. It was absolutely grueling. I have a new found respect for everyone who dares to run the 26.2. I also learned that you can push your body to the limits in the short races but in the marathon your body will tell you when it is done."

I completely agree with you, it’s funny because I remember while running this Saturday around mile 23 thinking this was 100 times harder than the old reliable 10k and the inside-out half marathon. So to be honest my goal for every marathon is to finish it. As far as a great goal for my next marathon, it will be somewhere around 3:35. My ultimate goal is to BQ, but probably will have to wait until I’m 45 or older since right now (I’m 41) I’ll need a 3:20 and right now I can’t imagine holding a 7:38 pace for 26.2 miles – I’ll keep training and trying though – that’s the fun part.

IP: Logged

posted Dec-12-2006 09:38 AM               

The fact is, without a long period of thorough, event specific training, you can't run what the calculators say you can run, period. To try to is to have your muscles revolt! The cramps, IMO, are not caused by dehydration (that may be one factor), but they are caused because they are simply overtaxed for too long of a time.

We would be much better to set conservative goals, not stretch goals, and work from there, realizing it will take multiple marathons to reach our long term goals.

If you want to see how it's done, run one with bit. I think woman are much better at pacing themselves, as they tend not to 'go for it' with the same bravado that some of us knuckleheaded guys do

Another alternative is to simply work on our speed until the calculators say that we have potential to run far below BQ pace. For example, I have a buddy who runs 5ks in the 18s. According the the calculators, he should be able to run right around a 3:00 hour marathon, maybe better.

He ran his marathon this season (Marine Corp - his second), and his goal was to BQ (3:15). This would appear to be a very conservative goal given his short race times. Maybe it was, but he ran 3:12 in change, this, despite never stopping to take a drink (of even water), on a day with challenging conditions (wind). So, he may not have run to his potential, but he's going to Boston this spring, and I'm not!

So, my point? I'm going to work on my shorter race times. When my shorter race times indicate that a BQ would be an *easy* goal (not just something I could possibly do, if everything goes perfectly), I may try again. In other words, the greater differential between your raw speed and your goal marathon pace, the more likely you are to succeed.

------------------
brook trout

my profile

[This message has been edited by brook trout (edited Dec-12-2006).]

IP: Logged

posted Dec-12-2006 11:03 AM            

I agree with almost everything you said. Yes I absolutely went out too hard for the first two miles and I should have set a more realistic goal of just finishing. However, I don’t think my pace was what did me in. I firmly believe I was dehydrated and that is what caused the cramps. I had all of the classic signs when I was done(very dark urine, parched mouth, full blown cramps …etc) Without the cramp I would have come in around 3:35 and that is still with the affects of the dehydration slowing me down. As soon as I got that pure water in my system the cramp started to clear up. Put it this way, the cramp was getting worse at mile 22 and 23. I actually had a faster mile 22 than mile 23 and I had already cramped at the start of mile 22. Once the water got back into my system and the cramp cleared I was ready to go. I had all of the energy in the world. It felt like I had just started the race. It is a shame really because I could have probably posted a 45:00 for last 10K if the race had been 31.2 miles. The water made that much of a difference. I guess there is only one way to prove it though. I need to make sure I stay hydrated on my next marathon and post a much more consistent time. Why don’t we all pick a marathon in the early spring to run together? Most of us are all fairly close in marathon ability so far. I am sure a little company on those long runs would help a lot. I definitely felt alone as I was limping along watching the other groups fly by encouraging themselves. I bet we could all post a pretty impressive time if we do it as a group. If I had just stuck with the 3:30 pace group then I am sure I would have stopped to get more water. When I was following them for that quarter of a mile I could hear the pace guy encouraging them and teaching them what to do and what not to do. My biggest mistake was not taking what was offered. I tried to do it solo instead of using the best free advice ever. I won’t make that mistake next time!

I agree that going out too fast will slow you down and exhaust you. But I don’t think even the worst exhaustion would reduce me to a 17:00 minute mile.

------------------
My Profile

IP: Logged

posted Dec-12-2006 11:16 AM            

You have got to share with us your training.

Bob

------------------
I am dynamic and the mountain is static, but when I run up it I swear it moves.
Bob
My User Profile

IP: Logged

posted Dec-12-2006 11:19 AM               

Oh, btw - I ran an hour on Sunday (Umstead), so I'm almost fully recovered.

IP: Logged

posted Dec-12-2006 03:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by RunBobaluRun:
weeleeto, 39 minutes off your PR--WOW. What a great job!

You have got to share with us your training.

Bob

---

Thanks Bob!

Bob, you can read the long post about my training here: http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum6/HTML/022020-8.shtml (search for weeleeto).

IP: Logged

posted Dec-12-2006 08:42 PM            

JDF -
Tough race, but you learned a lot (pacing, hydration, etc) and I am sure next time will be much better! And congrats on finishing even when things got tough! A lot of people would not have done that.

Weeleeto - Congrats on the huge PR! Charlottesville is hilly, but I have heard great things about it!

Brooktrout -
Even I go out to fast sometimes! But not crazy fast like you and JDF!
Having a good running base is also important. I am not fast at the shorter distances and I haven't done speedwork (yet) but I do okay in the marathon. I think that's because I have a good base. (and not going out too fast)

Glad you are feeling recovered!

JDF (again) -
I think it would be fun to meet and do some runs toegther, even if we don't all run the same pace! (Maybe in Umstead?) Of course, maybe I could get you guys to slow down a little on your long runs and you could help me speed up a little!

I guess we should have told you the marathon hydration rule: Drink early and drink often!

Am I the only girl here?! Where are the ladies?

IP: Logged

posted Dec-12-2006 10:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by bitbit:
So much catching up to do!

JDF -
Tough race, but you learned a lot (pacing, hydration, etc) and I am sure next time will be much better! And congrats on finishing even when things got tough! A lot of people would not have done that.

Weeleeto - Congrats on the huge PR! Charlottesville is hilly, but I have heard great things about it!

Brooktrout -
Even I go out to fast sometimes! But not crazy fast like you and JDF!
Having a good running base is also important. I am not fast at the shorter distances and I haven't done speedwork (yet) but I do okay in the marathon. I think that's because I have a good base. (and not going out too fast)

Glad you are feeling recovered!

JDF (again) -
I think it would be fun to meet and do some runs toegther, even if we don't all run the same pace! (Maybe in Umstead?) Of course, maybe I could get you guys to slow down a little on your long runs and you could help me speed up a little!

I guess we should have told you the marathon hydration rule: Drink early and drink often!

Am I the only girl here?! Where are the ladies?

---

Bit,

Sounds great. I would love to do some training in Umstead. And yes I will definitely run a more even pace. Anytime you all run in Umstead just let me know. I need about two weeks for my foot to heal though. That bruise is something else!

------------------
My Profile

IP: Logged

posted Dec-12-2006 10:54 PM               

Cheers

Phil

IP: Logged

posted Dec-13-2006 07:22 AM            

------------------
My Profile
My Log

IP: Logged

posted Dec-13-2006 08:52 AM               

I got lost in Umstead last night. It sucked. I tried to create a loop by running into Camp Laphilto, or whatever it's called, figuring that you can escape the camp area from either side.

WRONG! I got turned around in the cabins area, it started to get dark, and I became disoriented. I ran back and forth on the unmarked trails, even tried to run under the powerlines (knowing that they cross Graylyn), but the brush was too thick.

Eventually, I just elected to stay on the widest path. I ended up running by a lake that I didn't even know was there (it had docks, and rowboats, and areas roped off for swimming (gross!). Thankfully, a ranger drove by as it was getting pitch black, and gave me directions back to my car (he was looking for whoever owned my car because it was after closing time).

I finally made it back, only to discover that the gates had been closed (this, despite the ranger saying that he'd leave them open!).

Thankfully, there's a pay phone at the visitor's center, and there are some park numbers on it. I was able to call the ranger and he came and let me out at about 7:00pm. I thought I was going to have to spend the night!

Turns out, he has waited for me at an intersection and was going to follow me out of the park and close the gate behind me. Apparently, there was one other car in the park, and he mistook them for me, and followed them out and locked the gate behind them!

He was apologetic, which was nice, though it was my dumb fault for getting lost. At least I got in a 90 minute run (even though I had only planned on about 30 minutes

------------------
brook trout

my profile

IP: Logged

posted Dec-13-2006 08:56 AM               

I don;t think you'd have any problem keeping up with me on trainign runs, btw - I usually run about 8:00-8:30/mile on my normal runs. Sometimes I run the last mile or so fast, but mostly I just run along at a comfortable pace.

The only time I run much faster is when racing.

------------------
brook trout

my profile

IP: Logged

posted Dec-13-2006 03:38 PM            

My training/running has been a little different this year because I have been doing marathons every couple/few months. But normally I run about 50 miles/week.
During the higher mileage weeks of marathon training, I will run in the mid-60s. (Obviously, I have some super low weeks following a marathon.) I don't follow a formal training plan though.

I know that's not a ton of miles, but it seems to work for me.

I am NOT the best example of how to train for a marathon though. It's probably better to build up to say, 40 mpw, get comfortable with that, and then start a "training plan."

IP: Logged

posted Dec-13-2006 04:38 PM            

I have been a little neglectful of my running. I think my weekly total is around 8 miles. Still, that is helping me heal. I want to try and increase it slowly to 20 mpw. Anymore than that it and will take time away from the other sports. Of course the idea of swimming and biking is to take away running time while maintaining fitness.

Bob

------------------
I am dynamic and the mountain is static, but when I run up it I swear it moves.
Bob
My User Profile

IP: Logged

posted Dec-13-2006 05:18 PM            

Bob

------------------
I am dynamic and the mountain is static, but when I run up it I swear it moves.
Bob
My User Profile

IP: Logged

posted Dec-13-2006 11:12 PM            

I just moved to NC and need to find a safe course to run with DD's running stroller. I am looking for 5-8 mile courses for my weekday runs. I am temporarily staying in Fuquay Varina but will be moving to North Raleigh as soon as I sell my house in MA.

Suggestions will be very much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,

TY

IP: Logged

posted Dec-14-2006 10:07 AM            

Where-bouts in north Raleigh? I live off Strickland Rd near Creedmore. I do my weekday training at work (we have a nice asphalt walking/running trail in the office center that's a nice even 5k for one lap), and I generally just leave the house and start running the streets. Running on Strickland from Creedmore to Falls of Neuse and back will give you about 7.5 miles and only one major street crossing (at Six Forks), while the loop around Strickland-Six Forks-Lynn-Creedmore is about nine miles.

Lots of people like to run the trails around Lake Lynn and Shelley Lake. The Lake Lynn trail is a little under two miles, though, so you'd have to do laps. Shelley Lake is a little bit longer if you do the loop, but it's also on the Greenway trails so you can get a little further. I've gone down as far as Crabtree Mall.

A lot of people like Umstead, but I suspect it's not really suited for running with a stroller. I've never run out there, though, so you need to ask the others on this thread about that.

IP: Logged

posted Dec-14-2006 10:26 AM               

If you know what neighborhood in N. Raleigh you are, it will narrow it down. My neighbordhood (Falls River) would be a great place to run with a stroller as the streets are designed in a way to 'calm' traffic and there are sidewalks abutting every road (they are concrete, unfortuneately). There's also a 1.4 mile long greenway trail in the neighborhood.

rlemert covered most of the areas. I've done runs as long as 20 miles at Shelley Lake. It's a two mile loop, but you can escape to the greenway system a couple of different ways. I just tend to run the loop, as it's fairly level, slightly scenic, and there's a restroom and water fountain every two miles that way.

If you're way north (like I am), another decent place to run is the Falls Lake Dam area. You can run a 3+ mile circuit by starting at the park gate, running around the visitor's center, out across the damn, and back the same way. It's a good place to run in the early morning or in the evening because it's paved, lit, and is gated during non-business hours.

There's also access to a 20+ mile single track hiking trail, if you ever run without the stroller.

------------------
brook trout

my profile

IP: Logged

posted Dec-14-2006 03:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by brook trout:

There's also access to a 20+ mile single track hiking trail, if you ever run without the stroller.

---

I live in Wakefield--where's the access to the single track? Do they have maps at the visitors' center?

By the way, I can't think of any better place to take jogging stroller than Umstead. It's almost all bridle trails, 15 feet wide and graded. It's hilly, though.

------------------
My Profile
My Log

[This message has been edited by bonesheal (edited Dec-14-2006).]

IP: Logged

posted Dec-14-2006 07:25 PM               

The Falls Lake Trail starts behind the visitor's center. Yes, there are maps at the visitor's center and there's also a map in that small parking lot right off of Falls of Nuese Road (the one that's just a little North of Bedford's entrance).

I usually park in that small parking lot and catch the trail that runs parallel to the road. It leads right to the Falls River Trail. You can go as far as you want, once on the trail. It crosses a road every couple/three miles, but other than that, it's pleasant forest with views of the lake.

Lots of roots, rocks, hills and turns, though!

It's actually 26 miles long, one way, in case you want to run a 52 mile out and back.

PS - I think I saw you running up Falls River Avenue this evening (about 7:00pm) - kind of near the shopping center/greenway entrance area. I was driving home. Either that, or someone who looked a lot like your profile pic!

------------------
brook trout

my profile

[This message has been edited by brook trout (edited Dec-14-2006).]

[This message has been edited by brook trout (edited Dec-14-2006).]

IP: Logged

posted Dec-14-2006 08:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by brook trout:
bonesheal,

The Falls Lake Trail starts behind the visitor's center. Yes, there are maps at the visitor's center and there's also a map in that small parking lot right off of Falls of Nuese Road (the one that's just a little North of Bedford's entrance).

I usually park in that small parking lot and catch the trail that runs parallel to the road. It leads right to the Falls River Trail. You can go as far as you want, once on the trail. It crosses a road every couple/three miles, but other than that, it's pleasant forest with views of the lake.

Lots of roots, rocks, hills and turns, though!

It's actually 26 miles long, one way, in case you want to run a 52 mile out and back.

PS - I think I saw you running up Falls River Avenue this evening (about 7:00pm) - kind of near the shopping center/greenway entrance area. I was driving home. Either that, or someone who looked a lot like your profile pic!

---

Wasn't me--I was running in Wakefield, and I was done before 7. Thanks for the map--I knew there was something there, but had no idea how much. I'll check it out on Saturday. Are there any mile markings?

------------------
My Profile
My Log

IP: Logged

posted Dec-14-2006 08:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by brook trout:
bonesheal,

The Falls Lake Trail starts behind the visitor's center. Yes, there are maps at the visitor's center and there's also a map in that small parking lot right off of Falls of Nuese Road (the one that's just a little North of Bedford's entrance).

I usually park in that small parking lot and catch the trail that runs parallel to the road. It leads right to the Falls River Trail. You can go as far as you want, once on the trail. It crosses a road every couple/three miles, but other than that, it's pleasant forest with views of the lake.

Lots of roots, rocks, hills and turns, though!

It's actually 26 miles long, one way, in case you want to run a 52 mile out and back.

PS - I think I saw you running up Falls River Avenue this evening (about 7:00pm) - kind of near the shopping center/greenway entrance area. I was driving home. Either that, or someone who looked a lot like your profile pic!

---

Wasn't me--I was running in Wakefield, and I was done before 7. Thanks for the map--I knew there was something there, but had no idea how much. I'll check it out on Saturday. Are there any mile markings?

------------------
My Profile
My Log

IP: Logged

posted Dec-15-2006 09:13 AM               

I can tell you, that if you start at the parking lot on Falls Of Nuese, and follow the trail to Raven Ridge Road, it's about 3.45 miles. I usually write it up as 6.9 miles in my running log, for the out and back.

------------------
brook trout

my profile

IP: Logged

posted Dec-15-2006 11:12 AM            

------------------
My Profile
My Log

IP: Logged

posted Dec-15-2006 11:42 AM            

I am not sure where in N. Raleigh we will live yet. DH is working on Forum Drive, near Six Forks Station. I will be working by Brier Creek Parkway. We will rent for the first 6 months after we sell until we buy, so it's more likely to be between those 2 places.

I like the idea of the park b/c I can let DD around a bit after I'm done too. But anything close to DH's work is also great for me b/c he works at a fitness facility and I have access to showers after I'm done. So even while I am living in Fuquay, I can still go there and have a place to get ready for work.

THANKS SO MUCH AGAIN!!!!

TY

IP: Logged