posted Nov-12-2006 04:42 PM            

A few weeks ago I ran the Inside Out Sports 10k in 61:58 or so, and I was convinced that I would have gone under 60:00 if I'd been running the Old Reliable instead. Well, today I had the chance to put my 'feet' where my mouth is (in a different way than usual) by running the Old Reliable. Bottom line - 58:08 unofficial!

I was concerned about running today because 1) I've been on the other side of the country for most of the week, and 2) I was afraid the wind we were experiencing before the race was going to cause problems. Fortunately I never noticed any - either it died down and I didn't realize it, or it stayed a cross-wind for the most part, or it was blocked by buildings for most of the course. I'm sure not going to complain about it, though.

I'm also not usually this good at setting my pace. The crowd at the start kept me from going out too fast, and I hit the first mile split right at my target of 9:40. I pretty much held this pace for the next two miles (picking up 10 seconds), then started slowly getting faster. I don't remember what the rest of my splits were - all I remember was that I was getting further and further in front of my target pace.

There was one improvement over last year that I was happy to see. They actually had someone at each mile letting you know how far you'd come. Last year I only saw one mile sign, at it was at mile five! I did here an interesting comment from a gentleman I was running with shortly after the 2-mile split. He said he appreciated the fact that they weren't calling out the split times. He said he'd rather be demoralized once at the end of the race than be reminded of how slow he'd become all through it.

I'll be doing the Inside Out 8k on Thanksgiving, and that's going to probably be it for me this fall. And even there, I plan on running just to see what happens. I've managed to reach my two main goals for the year, and whatever happens in the Turkey Trot is going to just be extra gravy.

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posted Nov-12-2006 07:33 PM            

R LEMERT RALEIGH NC 58:09 58:39 9:27

http://www.active.com/results/viewresults_multiple.cfm?filename=1343368_20061112033621.txt

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posted Nov-12-2006 08:08 PM            

The race went pretty well. I probably started to fast but I get so pumped up I just can’t help it. I was at 19:50 for the first 3 miles and 26:34 for the first 4 miles. I was running all alone for the first 2 miles when the leader of the open race blew past me. I lead the stroller race by about 50 yards until the mile 4 marker. I couldn’t believe it. A guy with a double jogger was just relentless. It was VERY windy on the up hills and this guy just would not fade. He was obviously a very well trained runner. He caught me at mile 5 and just drafted off of me until we made the turn at the capital. I had nothing left and I just couldn’t chase him down. He passed me with ¼ of a mile to go. I ended up finishing about 6 seconds behind him with a 40:56. I was a little disappointed that I couldn’t hang on for the victory after leading so long but hey shaving 3 minutes off of your 10K pr in a single race is not too bad. I can totally see the difference my training is making. I only did 25 miles this week including the race today but I was much more in control of my pace. Check this out. My 5 mile split was 33:23. So that means that I ran the last 1.20 miles in 7:33. Not too bad even if it was all downhill. Anyway, I talked with the guy that beat me after the race. He said that he was an ultra marathon runner(50 miles) that trained with his two kids in the stroller for up to two hours at a time. I don’t feel so bad about getting second now. He was a fantastic runner that was obviously better than me. However, I would like to see what I am capable of once I hit 60+ mpw.

I enjoyed talking with everyone I met today. I think I saw three of you from this message board there. I hope you all had great races and I hope to see you at the next race. And yes I plan on doing the turkey trot next weekend. I didn’t get my sub 40 goal(Damn close though) but that 19 goal is going down on Saturday!

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posted Nov-12-2006 08:10 PM            

Brook Trout - The reedy creek bridle trail indeed crosses (actually over) I-40, and then onto Weston Parkway. Prior to hitting Weston (in fact, just after crossing 40), you can veer to the right and hit the Black Creek greenway that runs by Lake Crabtree, etc, under Weston, under Cary Parkway, and so-on. Not sure exactly where it goes from there.

>> Old Reliable Report :

Good job to everyone running the Reliable today (nice to meet you in person (again) JDF! [ Good run ] ). The temps ended up being pretty darn good for running, and indeed, as Bob predicted, the rain subsided by race start. The wind (seemed) a bit of a factor at times, but all in all was a fun race! I liked the start/finish on the new Fayetteville Street.

On a personal note, I managed to knock a few seconds (7 I think) off of last year's time, which resulted in a new PR, and allowed me to sneak into 3rd place in my age group, so for that I was happy.

--

Finally, congrats to all those finishing Richmond and OBX this past weekend!

Have a good week everyone - looks like some pretty good running weather in the days ahead!

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posted Nov-12-2006 09:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by greenehouse:

>> Old Reliable Report :
On a personal note, I managed to knock a few seconds (7 I think) off of last year's time, which resulted in a new PR, and allowed me to sneak into 3rd place in my age group, so for that I was happy.
[/B]

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It was very nice to meet you also. I was a little bit pre-occupied at the time. I was trying to get my son to go Potty, convince him that he should go to his mothers violin concert, juggle the jogging stroller, and get over to NC State in 15 minutes. He wanted to see the Bell tower because he was asleep when we passed it on the run. He is a huge NC State fan. He sang the NCSU Fight song the whole way over to campus(Clean version that is).

Great, job on that race! Man you really smoked it!

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posted Nov-12-2006 09:33 PM            

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posted Nov-13-2006 09:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by weeleeto:
Rlemert, fantastic job, congratulations!
Greenhouse, congratulations on your 3rd place finish!
JDF, great race! 3 minutes of your 10K pr is very impressive. I enjoyed talking to you today and appreciate your advice before the race. I started a little faster than I planned, finished the first mile at 7:34. Then got into a good groove averaging 7:44 for the next 4 miles, then I did 8:04 in the last 1.2 miles – I was shocked by that even if it was downhill. I finished at 46:33. I was very happy with that time. I’ll see you at the Apex trot next week.

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Awesome job weeleeto. It sounds like you ran a very well paced race.

Overall it sounds like we all had a pretty successful weekend of racing considering some of the conditions(That VA marathon sounds like it was a real heat oven). Good job to everyone. Let’s keep it up next weekend at the 5K.

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posted Nov-13-2006 03:01 PM            

T-shirts are guaranteed to the first 600 entrants. There is no race day registration and registration is limited to 600. Last year it closed early..
Late entrants can register and pre-registered runners can pick up their packets on Thursday, November 16 from 3-6 p.m. at Raleigh Running Outfitters or on Friday, November 17, from 9 a.m. – 5 p.m. at the Apex Community Center at 53 Hunter Street in Apex. Pre-registered entrants can also pick up their packets on race day.

http://www.runnc.com/exec/young/schedule.cfm?publicationID=283#trot

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posted Nov-13-2006 03:04 PM            

JDF - If someone's going to beat you, better it be one of the best. I can't imagine my kid sitting still for two hours at that age - he would be trying to climb out of the stroller well before I was ready to stop running if I'd tried to do that.

BTW - Does Jason ever stay awake for the whole race?

On a different topic, a few weeks ago someone commented about the active running community in Raleigh, and said that we were not that far behind the Macon thread in terms of postings. Has anyone noticed that we've now passed them? We're at 39 pages and 956 posts, while they're at 36 pages and 891 posts. I don't think we'll ever catch up to the BEER thread, but we're not doing half bad.

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posted Nov-13-2006 04:01 PM            

Remember it is not about how fast you run, it is about how good you feel about yourself when it is all over! I know you were excited about your time so I would mark that down as a win in my book.

Actually I don’t think he has ever stayed awake for the whole race. He almost always sleeps for at least a portion of them. I think that is why he enjoys riding in the stroller so much. He always gets a good nap. This time was a little different though. Before he would never admit that he sleeps in the stroller. He would always say “I was awake the whole time”. This time he said “I slept the whole way. I don’t remember any of the race. Did we win?”. I lied and told him we set a world record. I didn’t want to ruin his day telling him that we came in 2nd. He isn’t old enough to understand what doing your best means. He only knows wins and losses. I think I need to work on that with him.

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posted Nov-13-2006 05:59 PM            

I am staying with my plan to keep running down and have been a good boy about that. Couldn't do the group ride Sunday with the bike, so Stairmastered for thirty minutes instead. Biked today and probably tomorrow. Plan on swimming Wednesday.

Jay it looks like you may need to do some pool work to stay in shape and rest the foot. Keep us updated on your progress.

Bob

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posted Nov-14-2006 02:09 PM            

Considering that is the longest run I have done in 17 years I feel pretty good. I could have gone further and I finished the 11.8 mile course in 1:24:02. My next run will be a long one. I plan on doing between 17-20 miles on Sunday depending on how I feel after the Turkey trot. If anyone runs on Cary Parkway then I would love to have some company. I saw quite a few people out there today. I was the 6’3” guy in the white long sleeve with shorts on.

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[This message has been edited by JasonsDrivingForce (edited Nov-14-2006).]

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posted Nov-15-2006 04:00 PM            

How many of your goals have you met for 06 so far? Personally, I have not accomplished any of them yet. However, I am real close on a few. Has anyone had to reset their goals because they didn’t set the bar high enough? Has anyone surprised themselves and accomplished a goal that they didn’t think they could achieve?

On a side note: On my 6 mile training run I ended up right beside one of my neighbors(I think) who runs a lot. I could tell he was trying to keep pace with me. We were heading up the medium steep hill from the highhouse/CaryParkway intersection. It is an almost ¾ of a mile hill. He was keeping pace with me just fine for almost the whole hill. Then I glanced back to see if he was still on my heels. I couldn’t see him at all. I thought he had turned off but then I saw him farther down the hill. If that was you then thanks for the pacing. By my watch it looks like we did the almost .6 miles up the first part of the hill in 3:23. That was a sub 6 minute per mile pace uphill! Even if you didn’t stay with me the whole way home that was a pretty good effort up that hill. That shattered my previous best for that section of the course. In fact it was only 5 seconds slower than my previous best down that same hill!

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[This message has been edited by JasonsDrivingForce (edited Nov-15-2006).]

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posted Nov-15-2006 04:55 PM            

At the moment I'm thinking of taking a week off to let the legs recover a little, then start my winter training. I'll probably try to maintain the 15-25 mpw I'm doing now, but add back in two days per week of weight training. I dropped the weight training to focus on running when the Grand Prix started, but I like what it was doing for me.

I'm also trying to find a suitable spring half-marathon. My wife won't let me consider another full marathon until I have completed a half in under two hours, and I'm thinking that with the way my times have improved in the shorter distances this fall this is a reasonable goal for the spring. In fact, the various on-line race predictors say that I should be capable of about 2:08 (based on my last 10k results). One of the biggest challenges I'm facing, though, is finding one in a convenient location that won't interfere with my son's school schedule. (If you think you're having fun now, wait until both of your kids are in school. You will no longer have control over your schedule.)

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posted Nov-15-2006 05:42 PM            

I have run a bunch this year. And have enjoyed it! (How could I not!?!)
I've run six marathons and plan to do one more before the year ends.
I have done some other races too. One 30K, three halves, a 10K, and a 5K.
But I haven't joined a running group.

But there is still time!
How about everyone else?

quote:

---

Originally posted by JasonsDrivingForce:

How many of your goals have you met for 06 so far? Personally, I have not accomplished any of them yet. However, I am real close on a few. Has anyone had to reset their goals because they didn’t set the bar high enough? Has anyone surprised themselves and accomplished a goal that they didn’t think they could achieve?

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[This message has been edited by bitbit (edited Nov-15-2006).]

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posted Nov-15-2006 06:21 PM               

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posted Nov-16-2006 08:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by bitbit:
Hey Travis!
My not very specific goals:
*Run a bunch and enjoy it.
*Run four marathons.
*Race more in general.
*Join a running group.

I have run a bunch this year. And have enjoyed it! (How could I not!?!)
I've run six marathons and plan to do one more before the year ends.
I have done some other races too. One 30K, three halves, a 10K, and a 5K.
But I haven't joined a running group.

But there is still time!
How about everyone else?

---

Wow, I would say you have accomplished some pretty lofty goals. Your marathon times are also quite impressive. Keep up the good work! Now how high are you going to set the bar next year?

Which 6 marathons did you run?

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posted Nov-16-2006 11:14 AM            

So what do I do? I don’t know why they picked these particular times for the pacers. They don’t seem to correspond to BQ times at all. Is that normal?

http://www.webwrightcarolina.com/cgi-bin/teemz/teemz.cgi?board=_master&action=opentopic&topic=1&forum=Runners_Corner

Charlotte’s Thunder Road Marathon will offer Endurance Magazine Pace Teams to help you run your best marathon! Pace Teams are available at the following times: 3:00, 3:15, 3:30, 3:45, 4:00, 4:15, 4:30, 4:45, and 5:00.

BQ Times

Men Women
18-34 3hrs 10min 3hrs 40min
35-39 3hrs 15min 3hrs 45min
40-44 3hrs 20min 3hrs 50min
45-49 3hrs 30min 4hrs 00min
50-54 3hrs 35min 4hrs 05min
55-59 3hrs 45min 4hrs 15min
60-64 4hrs 00min 4hrs 30min
65-69 4hrs 15min 4hrs 45min
70-74 4hrs 30min 5hrs 00min
75-79 4hrs 45min 5hrs 15min
80 and over 5hrs 00min 5hrs 30min

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posted Nov-16-2006 12:58 PM            

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posted Nov-16-2006 10:32 PM            

I decided then to try to train for and run a Fall marathon (so that I'd have the experience of 2 marathons prior to Boston 2007). I completed this goal in October, and even managed to shave a few minutes (14) off my Myrtle Beach time. Along the way, I picked up a couple of PRs (5K (2nd Empire), 8K (Patrol Stroll), and 10K (Old Reliable)), so all in all, I'm really happy with this year's running so far.

For 2007, I guess the goals include Boston 2007, a PR in the half at some point, and a fall marathon (TBD).

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I'm not going to be able to make the 5K this weekend (Apex) Turkey Trot; but am planning on hitting the Inside Out Turkey Trot next Thursday, and will keep an eye out for everyone there!

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posted Nov-16-2006 10:49 PM            

I'm no expert, but it seems that normally I've seen pace groups at 5 minute intervals (vs 15), so you're right, that's a pretty big gap between groups. [ Having 5 minute intervals definitely allows one to pick the group that most closely achieves a BQ time, if that's the goal, or any other time time goal, for that matter, with more granularity ].

As far as a strategy (with a 3:00 pace group vs a 3:15 pace group), for a 3:10 target: I'd be hesitant to try to "hang with the 3:00 group for as long as possible, and then let the chips fall where they may". That approach certainly goes against all conventional wisdom with racing in general, but is especially true in marathon racing. [Where starting out "too fast "is the proverbial "fatal error" to avoid at all costs]. Seconds saved on the front-end, costs minutes (and potentially a ton of suffering) on the back end, for sure (especially in the 26.2). Shooting for (relatively) even splits is the best path to an optimal time.

Now, if the training supports 3:00 as a reasonable goal, then perhaps it's worth sticking with the 3:00 group throughout. But if 3:10 is the reasonable goal, then I would suggest you just focus on doing your own pacing (and not trying to run with the 3:00 group at the start, only to risk the wheels coming off for the last 10K). There will be others there shooting for 3:10, you can believe it, so you might even (informally) be able to find a "pace group" for yourself at the start, or as the race gets going.

In the meantime, you can print (or get) pace bands to wear (which have every mile split target marked, for a given goal time).

As a side note, based on my understanding of Thunder Road course, running completely even splits mile-over-mile may be tricky, due to the rolling hill nature of the course. Nevertheless, trying to have at least an 'even effort' for the long haul, will still be the best way to shoot for your best time

Again, it's all just my 2 cents for what it's worth. [ No expert, and as per above post , only have 2 marathons under my belt - others with more experience may can offer different thoughts... ]

Best of luck, regardless with the training, and race!

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posted Nov-17-2006 08:58 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by greenehouse:
>> So what do I do? I don’t know why they picked these particular
>> times for the pacers. They don’t seem to correspond to BQ
>> times at all. Is that normal?

I'm no expert, but it seems that normally I've seen pace groups at 5 minute intervals (vs 15), so you're right, that's a pretty big gap between groups. [ Having 5 minute intervals definitely allows one to pick the group that most closely achieves a BQ time, if that's the goal, or any other time time goal, for that matter, with more granularity ].

As far as a strategy (with a 3:00 pace group vs a 3:15 pace group), for a 3:10 target: I'd be hesitant to try to "hang with the 3:00 group for as long as possible, and then let the chips fall where they may". That approach certainly goes against all conventional wisdom with racing in general, but is especially true in marathon racing. [Where starting out "too fast "is the proverbial "fatal error" to avoid at all costs]. Seconds saved on the front-end, costs minutes (and potentially a ton of suffering) on the back end, for sure (especially in the 26.2). Shooting for (relatively) even splits is the best path to an optimal time.

In the meantime, you can print (or get) pace bands to wear (which have every mile split target marked, for a given goal time).

Again, it's all just my 2 cents for what it's worth. [ No expert, and as per above post , only have 2 marathons under my belt - others with more experience may can offer different thoughts... ]

Best of luck, regardless with the training, and race!

---

Greenehouse,

I think it is excellent advice especially because I have trouble keeping an even pace. I don’t think a 3:00 is feasible based on my training or lack there of. I think I can do the 3:10 but not by much at all. It will probably require a huge effort up the last hill to come in under 3:10. Therefore, I guess I will just try to pace myself. I was able to hold a pretty good pace on my short run this morning(5K). I held a 3:05 for every half mile except for the final 1 mile uphill. I held an approximately 3:20 on that stretch. I feel fairly comfortable pacing myself on the short distances. It is just the longer ones that worry me. Whatever I do, I will not go out too fast.

On a side note, I picked up a new pair of shoes yesterday. I didn’t realize how heavy the shoes I was running with before were until I tried the “Saucony Grid Type A”. They are a little loud for some people but I don’t care what they look like. I just want a good running shoe. I was wearing a Nike 360 before. That was an awful shoe that cost way too much! I had gone to the wrong shops before. I went to Dick’s, Foot Locker, Foot Action and all of the other chains. Most of them really don’t carry very good running shoes. I went to the Raleigh Running Outfitters in North Raleigh last night. They had a great selection and all of their shoes were about $40 less than the Nike 360 shoes I had. Any way, if you hate your shoes I would highly recommend going to look at a new pair. I can feel a huge difference already. I think I have a good shot at the sub 19 tomorrow even with the stroller and the hills. Wish me luck! That would be my first goal met this year.

https://shop.raleighrunning.com/displayProductDocument.hg?productId=36&categoryId=2

http://www.raleighrunning.com/index.htm

By the way what is your PR in the Marathon, if you don’t mind me asking? You said you were able to BQ on your first marathon. That sounds like a pretty good accomplishment.

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posted Nov-17-2006 09:31 AM               

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posted Nov-17-2006 09:55 AM            

A strategy I might consider is going with the 3:15 group for the first half of the race. This would help keep your pace under control in the early stages (where it's most likely for you to go out too fast), but will give you plenty of time to make up the difference if you're still feeling good. You'll also only have to pick up your pace by about 22 seconds per mile over the last half of the race to make up the difference.

I don't know that this strategy will work (and I can't even do one mile at the required paces - yet!), but it's something to think about. And if it doesn' work you can always try to stay with the 3:15 group - it will give you a target for the next time. (I have a co-worker from our Boston office that also needs a 3:10 for his BQ - and just ran a 3:15 at Bay State. He's going to be trying again in Austin.)

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posted Nov-17-2006 10:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by brook trout:
Careful JDF - I'm injured.

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Brook man, I am so sorry to hear about your injury! That sucks. Don’t beat your self up over trying to do that marathon. You were in fantastic shape and you probably had a great shot at the BQ if the terrain had been anything reasonable. Have you gone to the doctor? What have they said about it?

I will be very careful on my long runs and especially in the Marathon. I will not go for a 3:00 time in any portion of the Thunder road marathon. I believe that is just too aggressive. I will try to hit 7:15 exactly for the first 24 miles. If I am right at it or close to that then I will probably try to kick it in for the last two miles. If I don’t BQ then it just wasn’t meant to be. I have my first long run on Sunday. I can’t wait for that. Although, it is going to be hard for me to hold myself back on the pace. I am so used to running the all out 5ks.

If there is anything we can do to help speed up your recovery then let us know. You can have a ride in the stroller if that will help?

So how many of us are sidelined with an injury right now?

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