posted Oct-30-2006 12:14 PM            

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posted Oct-30-2006 12:21 PM               

JDF,

I'm almost ashamed to admit, but I've called in a babysitter at times when I've had the kids on my own on the weekend so that I could get in my long run.

Jay,

Yeah, might have been an electrolyte thing. You're not the first person to mention that as a probable cause. The thing is, I did eat a banana right before the start and I did drink sports drink at each aid station (though, much of it went up my nose!). I also didn't experience anything like them in my 20 milers (and I took in nothing but water in my 20 milers), and these kicked in at 18 (right at the crest of a very large hill).

That said, I was covered with that salty, white residue after the race, so I was definitely losing salt. I also may not have been getting enough of the sports drink in. I was also working much harder due to the hills and the pace, so it was most likely a combination of things.

The only mile that I didn't cramp after 18 was mile 26. Looking back on it, because I was hobbled during those miles, I was lingering at the aid stations and gulping down sports drink and GU (up to that point, I was getting just a few sips of sports drink because I was drinking on the run). Maybe the supplements were finally starting to take effect at 26 and that's why I didn't cramp during that mile... hmmm....

I also have abnormally large calf muscles, so I wonder if that somehow makes me prone to these things. Man, when those suckers clenched up, it was absolute agony!

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posted Oct-30-2006 12:54 PM            

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posted Oct-30-2006 12:58 PM            

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posted Oct-30-2006 01:03 PM            

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posted Oct-30-2006 01:05 PM               

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brook trout

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posted Oct-30-2006 01:10 PM            

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posted Oct-30-2006 01:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by brook trout:
No. I won't be running Boston until 2008, even if I can manage a BQ at the Creeper (which isn't likely because the course isn't real fast and neight am I). I don't know when the cutoff for qualifying is, but most of the "last chance to qualify" type races I've seen are at the end of February, implying that the cutoff is around there.

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Cool thanks, I might try to do that Disney one.

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posted Oct-30-2006 05:55 PM            

I also thought that the downhills were supposed to be hard on the quads. But my quads don't hurt. My calves are killing me though. They have been hurting since mile 5 of the race!

I have never had my calves hurt like this! I usually only take two days off after a marathon, but I really doubt that I will be able to run tomorrow. Ugh. I hope I didn't screw up Richmond.

And yes, you do have abnormally large calves!

About the electrolyte thing... It did get pretty hot in the latter part of the race and it was really sunny. So I am sure you were losing a lot of salt. (I was definitely overheating in my long sleeve shirt.) Do you normally train with gu or gatorade on your long runs?

To JDF about Boston,
I know you mentioned that you had only run 6mpw lately, but what was your base like before that? You are pretty short on time to build up miles and train for an 07 BQ. But it's not impossible!

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posted Oct-30-2006 06:06 PM            

Let me know your email if you want to see the pics L took!

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posted Oct-30-2006 07:36 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by bitbit:

And yes, you do have abnormally large calves!

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Hey, now - you're not supposed to pile on!

It's a vestige from my fat days... cankles... I hope that as I get further and further from my former fat self that they'll atrophy down to normal size. If they do, I'll get much faster! They're like built-in ankle weights.

Oh, and my quads are sore. Everything is sore. I'm just beat up. I've turned the corner, though - it's getting better - but I probably won't be able to run until Wednesday, earliest.

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brook trout

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[This message has been edited by brook trout (edited Oct-30-2006).]

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posted Oct-30-2006 08:16 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by bitbit:
And J,

Let me know your email if you want to see the pics L took!

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I just created a hotmail account and you can access it by clicking on the 'profile' button at the top of this message (not the profile I link to the bottom!). It has a 25MB limit, so, don't know if the pix'll fit!

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posted Oct-30-2006 08:50 PM            

I didn't mean it in a negative way at all! They are very muscular!

Forwarding you the email now!

K

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posted Oct-30-2006 09:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by bitbit:

To JDF about Boston,
I know you mentioned that you had only run 6mpw lately, but what was your base like before that? You are pretty short on time to build up miles and train for an 07 BQ. But it's not impossible!

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My base was not much better for August and September. About 10-15 mpw of training with 5-10 miles of racing each week. Yea I know it might sound crazy but I have been doing more racing than training lately. My training for October dwindled to almost nothing. That has all changed now. I will do at least 20 miles this week and start building up from there. I should be able to get up to 40 pretty quickly.

I tend to take things to the extreme when I set my mind to it. I have definitely committed to doing this. I just need to find a race to qualify with. It doesn't look like there are any races that I could drive to in January or Febuary besides the disney one. Does anyone know if the registration for the Disney one is closed now? I guess I could do one in Late December. I think I could be ready by Christmas.

Is anyone else planning on doing the Boston this year? How much training did it take for you to qualify?

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posted Oct-30-2006 09:54 PM            

I just checked the Disney website, and it says it's closed. What about Myrtle Beach in February? That's pretty close and you would have more time to prepare.

There aren't many races in the second half of December.

I'm not one to ask about training to BQ, since
a) I'm a girl and get a lot more time, and b) don't have much of a "training" schedule.

I did follow Pfitz once and thought it was a good schedule. It was tough, but I had good results!

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posted Oct-30-2006 10:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by bitbit:

20 mpw isn't bad at all, especially since you are pushing jogger. That's a tough workout. And I understand the "putting my mind to it" mentality.

I just checked the Disney website, and it says it's closed. What about Myrtle Beach in February? That's pretty close and you would have more time to prepare.

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Yea I just planned it out. Myrtle Beach in Feb is my goal race. However, I found the Charlotte Marathon on December 9th. So am I crazy? Is it possible to go from less than 5 mpw to 30 yr old Male BQ in 1 month? I guess I already know what you are going to say. Oh well, I am going to do it anyway. Anyone care to join me?

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[This message has been edited by JasonsDrivingForce (edited Oct-30-2006).]

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posted Oct-31-2006 12:17 AM            

All you folks trying to BQ in your first attempt are driving me nuts. The OBX will be my fourth marathon and I'm only aiming for a 3:30. Sheesh.

Anywho, my plan is to finish the OBX in 3:30, then do recovery running for about 4 weeks (it's built into the Pftiziger plans), then start Pfitz's 18/70 plan on Jan 1. And hopefully with all that running I'll be able to pull off better than 3:15:59 at the VA Creeper. And if training doesn't go as well as hoped, the VA Creeper is only $10 and I'm sure someone will be able to fill my spot.

JDF - I personally think what you're trying to do is very aggressive. The general rule of thumb is not to add more than 10% mileage per week or 1 mile for every day of the week you run, whichever is less. And every 4th week should be a cut back week. Piling on the mileage week after week is a recipe for injury. Esp if you want to BQ, the most important factor (IMO) is total miles run over the coure of your preparation for the race. There are plenty of spring marathons -- go check out the calendar at marathonguide.com. I think you'd really be better off looking for something in late Feb if not mid to late March. Keep in mind that a BQ is good for 18 months, so even if you BQ in March or April, that's still good for 2008. In fact, some folks wait to BQ till after Sept since then it's good for two sequential Bostons.

There doesn't appear to be an official cut-off date for the '07 Boston. It simply says on the website:

quote:

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The field size will be limited to 22,500 athletes. Entries from athletes meeting the qualifying times will be accepted until the maximum field is reached.

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Dunno how quickly it fills, but I'm guessing pretty quickly even with the
qualifying time requirements.

j.

[This message has been edited by jaysoffian (edited Oct-31-2006).]

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posted Oct-31-2006 09:07 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by bitbit:
J,

I didn't mean it in a negative way at all! They are very muscular!

Forwarding you the email now!

K

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I know - that was fake mad

Thanks for the pix!

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posted Oct-31-2006 09:44 AM               

I agree that you're taking some risks, JDF. You've got much better than average natural speed, so you might be able to do it, but you're taking a chance by ramping up the mileage and esp. the long runs so quickly. But that's stating the obvious, I'm sure you've weighed the risks. Just make sure that you heed any warning signs from your body - esp. when the long runs start ramping up past 15 miles - those can really beat you up if you're not used to them.

Take a look at those Pfitz schedules. You might have to adapt them to accomodate your real life, but as long as you understand the principals (and they are all carefully explained in the early chapters), you should have no problem using one of the schedules as a template, but tayloring it to your life.

That's what I've basically done. I'm taking his concept of the two weekly long runs with quality. I believe in those workouts. I'm not doing a long run each week, though. I'm doing the long run (20+ miles) every two weeks and on the week I don't do the long run, I'm going to race. The races will be my speed/treshold work.

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posted Oct-31-2006 10:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jaysoffian:

JDF - I personally think what you're trying to do is very aggressive. The general rule of thumb is not to add more than 10% mileage per week or 1 mile for every day of the week you run, whichever is less. And every 4th week should be a cut back week. Piling on the mileage week after week is a recipe for injury. Esp if you want to BQ, the most important factor (IMO) is total miles run over the coure of your preparation for the race.

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Yea I understand. I am going to increase my mileage steadily over the next couple of weeks. I will see how I feel after that. If I am still on track then I will do the Charlotte Marathon and just try to stay exactly on the 3:10 pace. If I miss it on that race then I will try for one of the Spring Marathons where I will definitely have enough time to get the proper training in.

I ran my 10K course this morning(43:29) and shaved 1.5 minutes off of my time yesterday(45:05) just on proper pacing alone. That jogging stroller really screws up my pace. I feel great now so I am going to stay with this mileage for the next couple of days.

Yea I know I am probably setting my self up for disaster. However, I know my body and its limits pretty well. I have never been injured while doing any running or training at all so I am hopeful that I will be able to get through this injury free.

I guess I have been way too aggressive in my goals all of my life. When I was 12 my dad said hey do you want to run a half marathon this weekend. I said why not. We ran one 10K training run and then just got up and started the race cold turkey(virtually no training at all). I think I ran about a 2:20. I don’t remember my exact time for that half marathon. I was reduced to barely running by mile 11. I practically crawled into the track where the race finished. A guy next to me said is that your dad 100 yards ahead of you? I said yes. He said you aren’t going to let him beat you are you? I just kicked it in and probably ran a 1:25 400 around that track on adrenalin alone. I think I beat my dad by 6 seconds that day and I never ran another race with him after that. Looking back on it I realize how reckless that really was. However, I was 12 so what did I know. I feel like I am in very good shape now even though I have not been doing the training that I should have been doing. I am trying to change that now and hopefully it will pay off in the end.

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posted Oct-31-2006 01:57 PM            

http://www.active.com/results/viewresults.cfm?e_id=1342433

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posted Oct-31-2006 07:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by JasonsDrivingForce:

Yea I know I am probably setting my self up for disaster. However, I know my body and its limits pretty well. I have never been injured while doing any running or training at all so I am hopeful that I will be able to get through this injury free.

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posted Oct-31-2006 07:51 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by JasonsDrivingForce:
The second empire grand prix results are now current through the Inside Out Sports Half marathon. The thing that is interesting is that people who ran the half marathon ended up getting about the same number of points that they had in the previous races. People running the 10K(With the exception of the winner were getting about 30 points less than the other races). It appears that the correction factor that was used to equate the half marathon to the 10K was based on last years 34:00 minute winning 10K time. Since Mr. L'HEUREUX blew us all out of the water with his 32:14, all of the 10K times were not that good when compared to the winning time. However, the half marathon runners were given an extra boost because of the substantial correction factor. Oh well they ran twice as far so they should get some extra credit I guess.

http://www.active.com/results/viewresults.cfm?e_id=1342433

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I know there was a conversion factor for the half but was unclear how it was calculated. I'm now 3rd in AG, about 80 points between me and #2 but fortunately about 500 points between me and #4

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posted Nov-01-2006 04:41 PM               

Jay, this is going to be a great surface to run on:

Can't wait.

It looks like there's a 350-400 foot elevation change in the section of the Creeper trail that we're running on. That's over about 8 miles and easy grade, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

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[This message has been edited by brook trout (edited Nov-01-2006).]

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posted Nov-02-2006 10:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by brook trout:
I attempted four easy miles today and struggled. My legs are just dead. My hamstrings are still tight. At least my calves feel normal.

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BrookTrout,

Sorry to hear about your injury. I hope you recover quickly. Man I am starting to get nervous about the marathon after what happened to you. However, I still plan on doing it. I have run a 10K training run each of the last three days. In that time I have dropped my time from a 45:05 to a 42:59 on the same course. Most of that is just changing from my all out 5k stroller pace to something that is more suited to the longer distances. I feel great. No injuries yet. (Knocks on wood). I really think that if I can get some longer runs in over the next few weeks I might have a shot at the Marathon in December. Now, I have still yet to run anything over 10 miles(Anna’s Angels 10 miler) and I no everything starts to really change after mile 18 but I think I can do it.

I have really noticed over the last few days how much different running with the stroller is. I used to never even notice the weight because I always ran with it. There is one really steep half mile hill that I end my training runs with. Even though I was only doing about 15 mpw with the stroller over the summer. I got to the point that I could do that .5 mile hill in 3:29 with the stroller. The best I have been able to do by my self now is 3:48. That just goes to show how strong my muscles were getting when I was training with the extra weight. Those 16 mpw were probably the equivalent of 30 or maybe even 35 mpw.

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