Community: Exchange advice in the forums and read running commentary Resources: Personal running log, calculators, links and other tools for runners News: Running news from around the world Training: Articles and advice about fitness, race training and injury prevention Races/Results: Find upcoming races and past results Home: The Cool Running homepage
Cool Running homepage
Community
discussion forumsviewpoint
| > rules | > faq | > e-mail to a friend | moderator: Jim Sullivan

Please tell me how this is "protecting religious freedom"


Topic is 7 pages:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Post a new topic    
> next newest topic | > next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Please tell me how this is "protecting religious freedom"
ferrellk
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ferrellk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kommish77:
Scientists have no idea what a major flood would do to their "tests" so I can't believe their numbers are accurate.

Plus, how old would a mountain appear, if God created it? A full grown mountain, not a baby mountain, not a youth mountain, not a teen-age mountain? Would it appear one day old to these radiometric tests the day He created it, or would it apprear older?

You can't see it my way, and I can't see it yours... sorry.


Oh man, pigeye! Kommish just Zidaned you!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I bet teenage mountains are a pain to deal with.

I won't uplift! You can't make me!

IP: Logged

makeda
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for makeda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's easy to recognize the teenage mountains. They're always on the phone.

IP: Logged

pigeye
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pigeye   Click Here to Email pigeye     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by makeda:
It's easy to recognize the teenage mountains. They're always on the phone.

I thought volcanos were the teenage mountains.

IP: Logged

cindyleigh
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cindyleigh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kommish77:
So let's have some "religious" classes and allow children/parents to opt out. Sounds fair to me... sound fair to you?


Not only fair, but smart .... especially as so many of the world's conflicts are based on religious differences..and there is so much religious allegory in literature. How about a class called "Religions of the World". It will discuss aspects of all religous beliefs, giving equal time and weight to all....and presented in a non-biased manner.

Weekly topics (in alphabetical order):

Aladura
Asatru
Atheism
Bah'ai Faith
Bön
Brahmanism
Branch Davidians
Buddhism
Cao Dai
Chinese Religion
Christianity
Christian Science
Church of Satan
Confucianism
Daikyo
Deepak Chopra
Deism
Druidism
Druse
Eckankar
Egyptian Religion
Epicureanism
Falun Gong
Germanic Heathenism
Gnosticism
Greek Religion
Hare Krishna (ISKCON)
Healthy, Happy, Holy (3HO)
Heaven's Gate
Hinduism
Islam
Jainism
Jehovah's Witnesses
Judaism
Manichaeism
Mormonism
Native American Religion
Neoplatonism
Peyote
Platonism
Raelians
Rastafarianism
Roman Religion
San-chiao
Santeria
Satanism
Scientology
Self-Realization Fellowship
Shakkyo
Shinto
Shobo
Sikhism
Stoicism
Taoism
Tenrikyo
Transcendental Meditation
Unitarian Universalism
Vedanta
Voodoo
Yezidis
Yoruba
Wicca
Zoroastrianism

IP: Logged

pigeye
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pigeye   Click Here to Email pigeye     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While that is an impressive list, I'm not sure I want the schools to be teaching Peyote.

IP: Logged

cindyleigh
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cindyleigh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pigeye:
While that is an impressive list, I'm not sure I want the schools to be teaching Peyote.

Is that on there? I also noticed Deepak Chopra-ism!

I copied and pasted it from this:
http://www.religionfacts.com/a-z-religion-index/index.htm

Its a great website. Very informative.

IP: Logged

CharlesRiverBlowfish
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CharlesRiverBlowfish   Click Here to Email CharlesRiverBlowfish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pigeye:
While that is an impressive list, I'm not sure I want the schools to be teaching Peyote.

Why do you hate Carlos Castaneda?

*Win Bushwell bucks by guessing who voiced Homer's coyote spirit guide!

------------------
Dr. Joan Bushwell's Chimpanzee Refuge

IP: Logged

Hairy Trotter
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hairy Trotter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CharlesRiverBlowfish:
*Win Bushwell bucks by guessing who voiced Homer's coyote spirit guide!


The lovely and talented....

IP: Logged

kommish77
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kommish77     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pigeye:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kommish77:
[b] Scientists have no idea what a major flood would do to their "tests" so I can't believe their numbers are accurate.

Plus, how old would a mountain appear, if God created it? A full grown mountain, not a baby mountain, not a youth mountain, not a teen-age mountain? Would it appear one day old to these radiometric tests the day He created it, or would it apprear older?

You can't see it my way, and I can't see it yours... sorry.




That is because your way is wrong. The way of willful ignorance seems strange to me; perhaps it is not so much that it is wrong as it is that I do not even begin to understand it. You claim to believe in God, yet you refuse to engage the brain which you must believe He gave you. How can that be anything but an insult to your creator? Failing to use the one thing that seems to separate us from other animals, and thus must have something to do with your god (as you claim to believe you are made in His image) seems to me to thumb your nose at Him in a way that seems---at least from the outside---to be incredibly disrespectful.

Now, to address the substance of your question.
I know full well what a major flood would do to such radiometric tests. In fact, radioisotopic ratios are used to determine the age of pockets of water, where by age, I mean how long they have been isolated. Water does not have much effect on nuclear process (except to the extent that water could moderate neutrons, which is not relevant to the processes used for dating). As for your putative mountain, it would depend on the processes God employed in the making of said mountain. If He, in his Incredibleness, created it from "scratch" by forming the elements from the void, it would appear somewhere between brand new and infinitely old depending upon how Capricious He is and how well He knows His Nuclear Physics.


p.s. If there was a flood which covered all the land, where has the water gone? [/B][/QUOTE]

God didn't give me a brain so I could become so smart as to not believe in Him (though that has happened to you, and many others). Unfortunately your final exam will come, might be tonight, might be in 75 years, but it will come. How "smart" you were during your life won't help you much then.

Sorry, but I put my faith in the Creator, not your faith of science and calculations. I have chosen to live and die by my faith, you have chosen to live and die by yours. Good luck.

I would say most of the water is still here. God was able to do with the water whatever He so chose to do, so if He evaporated some I am OK with that, if He kept it all here I am OK with that.

IP: Logged

kommish77
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 05:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kommish77     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cindyleigh:

Not only fair, but smart .... especially as so many of the world's conflicts are based on religious differences..and there is so much religious allegory in literature. How about a class called "Religions of the World". It will discuss aspects of all religous beliefs, giving equal time and weight to all....and presented in a non-biased manner.

Weekly topics (in alphabetical order):

Aladura
Asatru
Atheism
Bah'ai Faith
Bön
Brahmanism
Branch Davidians
Buddhism
Cao Dai
Chinese Religion
Christianity
Christian Science
Church of Satan
Confucianism
Daikyo
Deepak Chopra
Deism
Druidism
Druse
Eckankar
Egyptian Religion
Epicureanism
Falun Gong
Germanic Heathenism
Gnosticism
Greek Religion
Hare Krishna (ISKCON)
Healthy, Happy, Holy (3HO)
Heaven's Gate
Hinduism
Islam
Jainism
Jehovah's Witnesses
Judaism
Manichaeism
Mormonism
Native American Religion
Neoplatonism
Peyote
Platonism
Raelians
Rastafarianism
Roman Religion
San-chiao
Santeria
Satanism
Scientology
Self-Realization Fellowship
Shakkyo
Shinto
Shobo
Sikhism
Stoicism
Taoism
Tenrikyo
Transcendental Meditation
Unitarian Universalism
Vedanta
Voodoo
Yezidis
Yoruba
Wicca
Zoroastrianism



Sure sounds like a fun class!

You Googled to get the list... oh man, don't tell Wet Willie that you googled. He only respects you if you know your stuff off the top of your head like him. Any nitwit can use google haven't you heard? Sheesh, come up with your own list!

IP: Logged

CharlesRiverBlowfish
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CharlesRiverBlowfish   Click Here to Email CharlesRiverBlowfish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Trotter:
The lovely and talented....

[IMG]<Man in Black>[/IMG]


<Blaring cheesy game show music> Hairy, you have won 10 Bushwell bucks! Win another 10, and you may redeem these for a pick-a-tick grooming session with the Doc herself. Conditions for the award: winners must listen to the Doc yammer, hoot and yowl about the fallacy of Cartesian dualism. Void where prohibited by Pat Robertson and D. James Kennedy.

------------------
Dr. Joan Bushwell's Chimpanzee Refuge

IP: Logged

Wet Willie
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wet Willie   Click Here to Email Wet Willie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kommish77:
Sorry, but I put my faith in the Creator, not your faith of science and calculations.

Except when you get sick and take a late-generation antibiotic, which was synthesized with the known evolution of its target microorganisms in mind. Or when you turn on your computer, a device invented by a homosexual. Or when you do pretty much anything besides root around on a dirt floor grunting and looking for grubs, an activity which may well consume most of your waking hours.

It's always funny to listen to godzers intone, "Wait 'till judgment day, sucker," as if they have any more insight into the utter, blank finality of death than those of us who accept the fact that the end is simply the end. Yet even as they scorn the advances of science in word, they rely on them in an infinite number of ways every day, something which -- unlike claims about the afterlife -- can be demonstrated in the here and now.

[This message has been edited by Wet Willie (edited Sep-30-2006).]

IP: Logged

megerina
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for megerina   Click Here to Email megerina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My kids get religion classes almost every Sunday. Since they go to a UU church they are learning about Hindu's, buddhists, christians, muslims, zoroatrans, the Native american church, Judaism, etc. Gee They also get their sex ed from OWL.

We teach Science in the home, along with reading, and arithmetic and the constitution, another thing which is apparently sorely lacking in most of the public schools today, judging by polls. Funny thing, I as a homeschooler in Colorado must teach my kids about the Constitution, but it isn't required reading in the Public schools here (and it shows)

I may believe fundamentalist religions are the cyanide of the masses, but I want my kids to come to their own conclusions.

Now getting back to the original topic, it is merely a(nother) unconstitutional, feel good bill to distract people from the real and pressing issues facing the US today.

meg

IP: Logged

korts
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for korts   Click Here to Email korts     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
megerina, you are one cool chick.

------------------
korts
Me

There's a sandwich in every beer.

"I bet your sink puts your vaginal hygiene in the shade." - muscatel1988

IP: Logged

Dervin
Cool Runner
posted Sep-30-2006 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervin   Click Here to Email Dervin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kommish77:
So let's have some "religious" classes and allow children/parents to opt out. Sounds fair to me... sound fair to you?

I'm sorry there are no private schools where you live?

IP: Logged

pigeye
Cool Runner
posted Oct-01-2006 08:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pigeye   Click Here to Email pigeye     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kommish77:
God didn't give me a brain so I could become so smart as to not believe in Him (though that has happened to you, and many others). Unfortunately your final exam will come, might be tonight, might be in 75 years, but it will come. How "smart" you were during your life won't help you much then.

Sorry, but I put my faith in the Creator, not your faith of science and calculations. I have chosen to live and die by my faith, you have chosen to live and die by yours. Good luck.

I would say most of the water is still here. God was able to do with the water whatever He so chose to do, so if He evaporated some I am OK with that, if He kept it all here I am OK with that.


The funny thing is, I don't have 'faith' in science and calculations. They are either correct, or will be eventually proven wrong. As for God giving you a brain smart enough to not believe in Him...is this even logically possible?
I am genuinely curious why a god would create such a magnificent system of natural laws but not abide by them. This is something that truly confuses me and is, for me, one of the major stumbling blocks when it comes to respecting certain practitioners of various religions. Why would a just and powerful god also be capricious?

IP: Logged

Wet Willie
Cool Runner
posted Oct-01-2006 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wet Willie   Click Here to Email Wet Willie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pigeye:
As for God giving you a brain smart enough to not believe in Him...is this even logically possible?
I am genuinely curious why a god would create such a magnificent system of natural laws but not abide by them. This is something that truly confuses me and is, for me, one of the major stumbling blocks when it comes to respecting certain practitioners of various religions. Why would a just and powerful god also be capricious?

It's also impossible for a being to simultenously be omniscient and omnipotent. An omnipotent being would know exactly what he's going to do in the future, but if this is true he cannot change his mind about it, rendering him less than all-powerful. Similarly basic but illustrative examples abound, but people like Kommish aren't troubled by any of it because they simply ignore them, something that comes surprisingly easy to dumb people.

IP: Logged

pigeye
Cool Runner
posted Oct-01-2006 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pigeye   Click Here to Email pigeye     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But I'm not even talking about omniscient and omnipotent, I'm just talking about sortascient and kindapotent.

IP: Logged

korts
Cool Runner
posted Oct-01-2006 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for korts   Click Here to Email korts     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pigeye:
But I'm not even talking about omniscient and omnipotent, I'm just talking about sortascient and kindapotent.

*snort*

------------------
korts
Me

There's a sandwich in every beer.

"I bet your sink puts your vaginal hygiene in the shade." - muscatel1988

IP: Logged

Ray Andrews
Cool Runner
posted Oct-01-2006 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ray Andrews   Click Here to Email Ray Andrews     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pigeye:
Why would a just and powerful god also be capricious?

You realize, don't you, that this is the way Ameica looks to a large part of the world--particularly to those trying to subsist under dictatorships.

IP: Logged

pigeye
Cool Runner
posted Oct-01-2006 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pigeye   Click Here to Email pigeye     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ray Andrews:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pigeye:
Why would a just and powerful god also be capricious?

You realize, don't you, that this is the way Ameica looks to a large part of the world--particularly to those trying to subsist under dictatorships.

[/QUOTE]

That may or may not be, but it has not so much to do with the question.

IP: Logged

Wet Willie
Cool Runner
posted Oct-01-2006 05:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wet Willie   Click Here to Email Wet Willie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ray Andrews:
You realize, don't you, that this is the way Ameica looks to a large part of the world--particularly to those trying to subsist under dictatorships.

And they're correct in doing so. However, in the course of complaining of splinters elsewhere on the planet, it would be reasonable to address the plank in the eye of faithful America.

(Edited to eliminate various clumsy things)

[This message has been edited by Wet Willie (edited Oct-01-2006).]

IP: Logged

korts
Cool Runner
posted Oct-01-2006 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for korts   Click Here to Email korts     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wet Willie:
And they're correct in doing so. However, it would be reasonable to address about the plank in America's collective faithful eye in the course of noting the splinters elsewhere on the planet.

'zactly.

------------------
korts
Me

There's a sandwich in every beer.

"I bet your sink puts your vaginal hygiene in the shade." - muscatel1988

IP: Logged

fuzz
Cool Runner
posted Oct-01-2006 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fuzz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by megerina:
fundamentalist religions are the cyanide of the masses

That is fawesome.


IP: Logged

kommish77
Cool Runner
posted Oct-01-2006 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kommish77     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wet Willie:
It's also impossible for a being to simultenously be omniscient and omnipotent. An omnipotent being would know exactly what he's going to do in the future, but if this is true he cannot change his mind about it, rendering him less than all-powerful. Similarly basic but illustrative examples abound, but people like Kommish aren't troubled by any of it because they simply ignore them, something that comes surprisingly easy to dumb people.


It may be impossible for you and me, but not God. BTW, Jesus was 100% man and 100% God while He was on Earth, figure that one out!

Willie, you are obviously a smart person but you need to overcome your pride (like all Christians had to).

Psalms 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

Psalms 73:6a Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain;

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 29:23a A man's pride shall bring him low:

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Time (US). > next newest topic | > next oldest topic
Topic is 7 pages:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Post a new topic    
Administrative Options: > Close Topic | > Archive/Move | > Delete Topic

Hop to:  
Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47d

race directors shop my profile
Sponsored By

© 2014 Active Network, LLC and/or its affiliates and licensors. All rights reserved.
About Us | Terms of Use | Copyright Policy | Your Privacy Rights | Support
Cool Running Facebook Facebook | Cool Running Twitter Twitter | Newsletter Subscription | News Feed Subscription | WannaDo
Race Directors | Running Events | Race Results | Running Tips | Pace Calculator | Couch to 5K | Running Forum | Running News