| Author |
Topic: Guide to world religions |
torque
Cool Runner |
 posted Apr-17-2006 09:13 AM
   
quote:
Originally posted by Chasing Amy:
Aw c'mon! My Fire 'n Brimstone Curmudgeon is funny! Admit it!
Well..considering it was directed at me when I have yet to qoute anything from the bible, no, I didn't think it was appropriate. This is how threads that are reasonable turn ugly.
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Chasing Amy
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by torque:
I can understand this leah. But what I'm asking people is to explore the reasons they do not believe. Much like when writing a thesis in university proving a theory wrong. It's a process of critical thought.It requires a tremendous amount of faith to be an atheist.
<serious moment> I very rarely tell people I am an atheist. I usually just say I am "not religious." By stating I am an atheist or simply that I "don't believe in God" puts people in an argumentative frame of mind. They seem to what to convince me that I don't really think this way - as if they will trip me up so to speak.<end serious moment>
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Chasing Amy
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by torque:
Well..considering it was directed at me when I have yet to qoute anything from the bible, no, I didn't think it was appropriate.This is how threads that are reasonable turn ugly.
Actually, it wasn't directed at you at all, and I'm sorry you thought it was. It was intended to be silly. Cup of coffee? Blueberry scone?
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torque
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chasing Amy:
<serious moment> I very rarely tell people I am an atheist. I usually just say I am "not religious." By stating I am an atheist or simply that I "don't believe in God" puts people in an argumentative frame of mind. They seem to what to convince me that I don't really think this way - as if they will trip me up so to speak.<end serious moment>
A lot of individuals believe they are either atheist or a theist but cannot tell you why they believe they are. But, as you can see, this thread is being fairly reasonable, and very engaging.
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Fionn mac Cumhail
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by torque:
Because, there are very good reasons (historical and scientific) to come to the conclusion that someone does not believe in Santa Claus.
Not to put too fine a point on it, most people do believe in Santa Claus...Saint Nicklaus is widely documented....most adults just don't think he's magic... PS: I believe in God... ------------------
-Fionn- Finn MacCool
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leahmonster
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by torque:
I can understand this leah. But what I'm asking people is to explore the reasons they do not believe. Much like when writing a thesis in university proving a theory wrong. It's a process of critical thought.It requires a tremendous amount of faith to be an atheist.
I could say just the opposite as in: It requires a tremendous amount of faith to believe in god. At least that is my thinking. I know you are trying to make this a civil discussion but when you force people to explain themselves (to you) feelings get stepped on. Why should atheists have to "explore" their feelings?
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torque
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by leahmonster:
I could say just the opposite as in: It requires a tremendous amount of faith to believe in god. At least that is my thinking. I know you are trying to make this a civil discussion but when you force people to explain themselves (to you) feelings get stepped on. Why should atheists have to "explore" their feelings?
Why shouldn't they explore their feelings? They owe it to themselves wouldn't you agree? And people are forcing me to explain why I believe..like I said, it's a two way street. I don't understand the logic of someone feeling so strongly about a cause yet not explore those reasons.
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torque
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Fionn mac Cumhail:
Not to put too fine a point on it, most people do believe in Santa Claus...Saint Nicklaus is widely documented....most adults just don't think he's magic...PS: I believe in God...
Thanks Fionn I meant to acknowledge that he did exist.
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leahmonster
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by torque:
Why shouldn't they explore their feelings? They owe it to themselves wouldn't you agree? And people are forcing me to explain why I believe..like I said, it's a two way street.I don't understand the logic of someone feeling so strongly about a cause yet not explore those reasons.
Well in the spirit of being civil I guess we shall agree to disagree! Adieu
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Chasing Amy
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by torque:
Why shouldn't they explore their feelings? They owe it to themselves wouldn't you agree? And people are forcing me to explain why I believe..like I said, it's a two way street.I don't understand the logic of someone feeling so strongly about a cause yet not explore those reasons.
I have actually explored my lack of belief quite thoroughly. I didn't just wake up one morning and decide to be an atheist because it was trendy. However, you will not like my reasoning and you will accuse me of flinging poo should I divulge my reasoning. Accordingly, I keep my thoughts to myself on this issue. 
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torque
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:32 AM
Lets look at this from a different angle. I've already mentioned "cause and effect". Where as there has to be a cause to have an effect. If I let go of a ball, it drops to the ground. What causes the ball to drop (effect)? Gravity (cause).Every scientist agrees that this world and beyond is effected by cause. Correct?
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torque
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chasing Amy:
I have actually explored my lack of belief quite thoroughly. I didn't just wake up one morning and decide to be an atheist because it was trendy.However, you will not like my reasoning and you will accuse me of flinging poo should I divulge my reasoning. Accordingly, I keep my thoughts to myself on this issue.
Then your beliefs are based on emotion?
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colby5402
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by korts:
However, I still see no evidence that G-d actually exists. To use the Bible as evidence for G-d's existence is rather circular. And to accept the Bible in that role takes a huge leap of faith.
I hate to interrupt a great conversation... Korts, I think the simple fact that you have a yearning for something bigger than yourself is food for thought. Let's talk about why you might have this desire...or anyone who might for that matter. It's totally contrary to evolutionary psychology theories to have behaviours/feelings that are detrimental to your survival. Let's just say that there is no God at all and you are, in fact, soley a product of your genetic determination. Well, then maybe your genes are trying to help you survive by finding faith in something. Which is a good thing if you do survive, right? Let's say that there is no God, and you have free will above and beyond your genes. (How'd you get that free will would be the next logical question...) In any case, you have free will to look around you and decide what to believe. Well, then searching for a faith is going to fulfill you. So I say, keep on searching. (IMHO, if you really are looking, you'll learn a lot about other beliefs, which is cool in and of itself...and you will likely see that there is evidence of God all around you. For example: Why are people motivated to do any selfless act if there is no God who implanted a desire that is contrary to survival of the fittest? Selflessness does not help you survive...unless, of course, you're Terry and have the idol in Survivor or something...but even then, it's not motivated by a pure heart.) Let's say that there is a God. Well, as my favorite author said, "If I find in myself a desire which no explanation in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world..." and "...the deepest thirst within [him] was not adapted to the deepest nature of the world." Some food for thought, anyway... And of course, let me add, before I get cursed by the whole CH...MHO. C
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Sage38
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:45 AM
well? go on...i'm not seeing where you are going with the cause and effect arguement.
n
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torque
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by colby5402:
. Well, then searching for a faith is going to fulfill you. So I say, keep on searching. (IMHO, if you really are looking, you'll learn a lot about other beliefs, which is cool in and of itself...and you will likely see that there is evidence of God all around you.
C
I couldn't agree with you more! I've learned so much since I started searching for the truth regarding religion.
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torque
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Sage38:
well? go on...i'm not seeing where you are going with the cause and effect arguement.
n
But I need to establish that the cause and effect theory exists. Do you agree with the statement I made regarding cause and effect?
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Sage38
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 09:57 AM
Yes, I accept cause and effect
n
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torque
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 10:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Sage38:
Yes, I accept cause and effect
n
One of the greatest discoveries in science, at least in my view, is Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Are you familiar with it?
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Sage38
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 10:03 AM
As much as someone 20 years out of school can be. I'm sorry i'm going to have to bail on the discusson right now. I'm just getting off a night shift and need to be getting home. I'll check back in this afternoon. Have a good day nancy
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Chasing Amy
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 10:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by torque:
Then your beliefs are based on emotion?
If you say so.
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torque
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 10:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chasing Amy:
If you say so.
Is your belief based on logic? I'm asking a question that only you can give me an honest answer to. [This message has been edited by torque (edited Apr-17-2006).]
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Chasing Amy
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 10:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by torque:
Is your belief based on logic?
It's not a belief at all actually, it's a lack of belief. And yes, I like to think that I came about this logically over many a Friday evening theological discussion with my Dad (also an atheist BTW, but I didn't know this until I was well into my 20s - he was very careful to allow me to come to my own conclusions).
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torque
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 10:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chasing Amy:
It's not a belief at all actually, it's a lack of belief. And yes, I like to think that I came about this logically over many a Friday evening theological discussion with my Dad (also an atheist BTW, but I didn't know this until I was well into my 20s - he was very careful to allow me to come to my own conclusions).
But, you're overlooking that fact that you need to "believe" you are an atheist. Again, there is a cause for every effect. Because of this, I don't believe in that. There is no "I don't believe because!". Were your searches about your questions solely with your father? Did you seek out varying opinions? What have you read on the topic? Do you see where I'm going? You need to expose yourself to information to arrive at your conclusion. I should also add that it's not very responsible of a person to seek out one sided information when arring at a conclusion. How ever unbiased your father was, he was still firm inhis belief about athiesm. The same can be said regardless of the "ism". [This message has been edited by torque (edited Apr-17-2006).]
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fredurie
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 10:16 AM
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/God-idea.htm"QUESTION: So if Buddhists don’t believe in gods, what do you believe in? ANSWER: We don’t believe in a god because we believe in man. We believe that each human being is precious and important, that all have the potential to develop into a Buddha – a perfected human being. We believe that human beings can outgrow ignorance and irrationality and see things as they really are. We believe that hatred, anger, spite and jealousy can be replaced by love, patience, generosity and kindness. We believe that all this is within the grasp of each person if they make the effort, guided and supported by fellow Buddhists and inspired by the example of the Buddha. As the Buddha says: No one saves us but ourselves,
No one can and no one may.
We ourselves must walk the path,
But Buddhas clearly show the way."
[This message has been edited by fredurie (edited Apr-17-2006).]
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Chasing Amy
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-17-2006 10:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by torque:
But, you're overlooking that fact that you need to "believe" you are an atheist. Again, there is a cause for every effect. [b]Because of this, I don't believe in that. There is no "I don't believe because!". Were your searches about your questions solely with your father? Did you seek out varying opinions? What have you read on the topic? Do you see where I'm going? You need to expose yourself to information to arrive at your conclusion.[/B]
See? Whenever I bring this up, somebody wants to argue with me. I admit that I do enjoy driving them nuts by refusing to engage them. 
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