| Author |
Topic: Guide to world religions |
this place is so lame
Cool Runner |
 posted Apr-18-2006 05:31 PM
  
quote:
Originally posted by colby5402:
It's not my place to know if they've heard the gospel...God only knows if they have heard and rejected.
So there's no scriptural definition of 'heard the gospel'?
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pfunksbn
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 05:34 PM
Hmmmmm.This:
quote:
Christianity is the only world religion in which God comes to Man. All of the others require that you do stuff to get to heaven...as though all of our "good stuff" were good enough. Christianity is based on grace. To me, that was a differentiating point.
and this:
quote:
Biblically, I think the only ones who aren't saved, are those who have heard (in whatever form that might be) and yet still reject.
sound conflicting to me. According to your definition, you DO have to "do stuff" as a Christian in order to get into Heaven. You have to actively "accept" the gospel, ie, that Jesus is your savior, etc.
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cindyleigh
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 05:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by colby5402:
ie: Islam. Be a martyr and you are guaranteed a place in Paradise. DO comes first and THEN comes after.Christianity has it backwards. It says that Christ propitiated. He was the surety. The guarantor. He lived a perfect life in our stead. His perfection is now attributed to those who accept. He saves us...and as a result, we live a better life...instead of the other way around. And our relationship to God is now restored.
I haven't found any description of Islam that speaks to martrydom, it is certainly not one of the six articles (http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs.htm), the only requirement I can find is to believe and recite the Shahada...which doesn't seem all that different than Christ accepting those that believe and accept in him.
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Ray Andrews
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 06:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TropicalEsq:
I keep wondering why religious folks so often insist upon anthropomorphising the universe, and Colby's post brought that question up in my mind, again. I find this fascinating. What is the need to attribute intelligence or purpose to all things?
I'm surprised you don't know the answer to this, it's so simple. (But often, as they say, the simplest things are the most profound.) Folks imagine things in the universe on their terms because we are made in God's Image.
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Ray Andrews
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 06:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TropicalEsq:
I wonder: is what we call "God" really a description of the multiverse and functions of quantum mechanics set forth in an anthropomorphic manner?
If that's all you imagine God to be--and nothing more--then, to you at least, "God" is cold.
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colby5402
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 07:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by this place is so lame:
So there's no scriptural definition of 'heard the gospel'?
Well, the scriptures tell this about "hearing" the gospel: Have you heard of the parable of the sower, that Jesus told? About a man who was sowing his crops and spread the seed anywhere and everywhere. Some seed fell on rocky ground and never took root. Some on places where weeds overcame the seedlings, and some on soil where the seeds actually grew and bore fruit. It matters not that the heart of the hearer is cold, too busy or preoccupied or ready and able to accept the gospel; the gospel will go forth "willy nilly" so to speak. The sower didn't make nice rows in soil that had been fertilized. He threw the seeds to all four corners of the earth. What matters is the ground where the seed lands. ie: Your mind and heart. And that can be one thing at a certain point in your life, and another at another time. I don't know if that answers your question or not, but in any case, God knows if a person has heard or just listened. C
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colby5402
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 07:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by pfunksbn:
Hmmmmm.This:
sound conflicting to me. According to your definition, you DO have to "do stuff" as a Christian in order to get into Heaven. You have to actively "accept" the gospel, ie, that Jesus is your savior, etc.
No, you only have to accept a gift. It's quite different that saying the right prayer at the right time...or doing whatever... in order to perfect yourself by yourself. You accept Christ's perfection as your own. Done. End of story. You are granted eternal salvation. If you truly believe what you've accepted, your life will change as a result. I grant that it's probably harder to ACCEPT a gift, than it is to have a checklist of things "to do"... C
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colby5402
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 07:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cindyleigh:
I haven't found any description of Islam that speaks to martrydom, it is certainly not one of the six articles (http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs.htm), the only requirement I can find is to believe and recite the Shahada...which doesn't seem all that different than Christ accepting those that believe and accept in him.
Yes, to convert, that's all that is required. Did you look into what is required to gain access to all of the rights and privaleges of heaven? C edited to add a link...http://www.roxanefarabi.com/Culture/funerals.php It has a basic outline of what is required... [This message has been edited by colby5402 (edited Apr-18-2006).]
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Dot Yurize
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 07:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by colby5402:
privalegesC
Didn't you say about a week ago that you couldn't take seriously someone who couldn't spell? ------------------
Your editors:
Dot Yurize
Ann Cross Yurteeze
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bburgoyne26
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 08:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by colby5402:
No, you only have to accept a gift. It's quite different that saying the right prayer at the right time...or doing whatever... in order to perfect yourself by yourself. You accept Christ's perfection as your own. Done. End of story. You are granted eternal salvation. If you truly believe what you've accepted, your life will change as a result.I grant that it's probably harder to ACCEPT a gift, than it is to have a checklist of things "to do"... C
Colby, I thought you were a Calvinist?.....you are talking Arminian?....I got this off of Christianforums.com: http://www.christianforums.com/t2528467-calvinism-vs-arminianism-link-is-this-accurate.html
"The real difference between Calvinism and Arminianism is the doctrine of the Sovereignty of God mostly where it concerns salvation. Where the Calvinist believes that salvation is all of God and none of man, the Arminian believes that although God saves man, man must first choose to be saved. This is the main difference between Calvinism and Arminianism."
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colby5402
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 08:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bburgoyne26:
Colby, I thought you were a Calvinist?.....you are talking Arminian?....I got this off of Christianforums.com:http://www.christianforums.com/t2528467-calvinism-vs-arminianism-link-is-this-accurate.html
"The real difference between Calvinism and Arminianism is the doctrine of the Sovereignty of God mostly where it concerns salvation. Where the Calvinist believes that salvation is all of God and none of man, the Arminian believes that although God saves man, man must first choose to be saved. This is the main difference between Calvinism and Arminianism."
No, I'm a wishy washy.  I believe that God works in us to make us soil so that we are willing and able accept His salvation. Which technically makes me a Calvinist because God moves first. But I do think that whether we accept or reject is up to us. And thankfully, I don't take myself too seriously...probably because I don't purport to be an expert in anything except tax...and that's just numbers.  C
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cindyleigh
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 08:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by colby5402:
Yes, to convert, that's all that is required. Did you look into what is required to gain access to all of the rights and privaleges of heaven?C edited to add a link...http://www.roxanefarabi.com/Culture/funerals.php It has a basic outline of what is required... [This message has been edited by colby5402 (edited Apr-18-2006).]
Colby,
From http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/salvation.htm "For a Muslim, the purpose of life is to live in a way that is pleasing to Allah so that one may gain Paradise. It is believed that at puberty, an account of each person's deeds is opened, and this will be used at the Day of Judgment to determine his eternal fate. The Qur'an also suggests a doctrine of divine predestination. {1} The Muslim doctrine of salvation is that unbelievers (kuffar, literally "those who are ungrateful") and sinners will be condemned, but genuine repentance results in Allah's forgiveness and entrance into Paradise upon death." This doesn't seem all that different than Christian ideology. The website you cited, http://www.roxanefarabi.com/Culture/funerals.php, claims to detail "what comes out of Shiite belief" but all quotes are from one person's travels (Thomas Herbert, 1627-1629) in Persia. From what I've learned in the past few days, the religion of Islam is as diverse as the many denominations of Christianity. I personally would be reluctant to use that site as a source of information. Check these sites out...
http://www.religioustolerance.org/
http://www.religionfacts.com/
http://mb-soft.com/believe/indexl.html (this one seems to have a Christian bent, but overall the information appears unbiased) I try to be discerning of where I get my information from on the internet, as most sites have an agenda.
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colby5402
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 08:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cindyleigh:
Colby,
From http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/salvation.htm"For a Muslim, the purpose of life is to live in a way that is pleasing to Allah so that one may gain Paradise. It is believed that at puberty, an account of each person's deeds is opened, and this will be used at the Day of Judgment to determine his eternal fate. The Qur'an also suggests a doctrine of divine predestination. {1} The Muslim doctrine of salvation is that unbelievers (kuffar, literally "those who are ungrateful") and sinners will be condemned, but genuine repentance results in Allah's forgiveness and entrance into Paradise upon death." This doesn't seem all that different than Christian ideology. The website you cited, http://www.roxanefarabi.com/Culture/funerals.php, claims to detail "what comes out of Shiite belief" but all quotes are from one person's travels (Thomas Herbert, 1627-1629) in Persia. From what I've learned in the past few days, the religion of Islam is as diverse as the many denominations of Christianity. I personally would be reluctant to use that site as a source of information. Check these sites out...
http://www.religioustolerance.org/
http://www.religionfacts.com/
http://mb-soft.com/believe/indexl.html (this one seems to have a Christian bent, but overall the information appears unbiased) I try to be discerning of where I get my information from on the internet, as most sites have an agenda.
I get it. Here's the difference: "the purpose of life is to live in a way that is pleasing to Allah so that one may gain Paradise. It is believed that at puberty,[ib] an account of each person's deeds is opened, and this will be used at the Day of Judgment to determine his eternal fate.[/b]" What you DO here on earth is what grants you access to eternal life. Not what you believe. To the Christian, you believe first and DO as a result. You've already gained heaven JUST by believing. And now you DO out of gratefulness for the gift you've been given. The Islamist does things in order to be OK when they die. The Christian is already OK...and does things in order to glorify God. C
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bburgoyne26
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 08:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by colby5402:
No, I'm a wishy washy. I believe that God works in us to make us soil so that we are willing and able accept His salvation. Which technically makes me a Calvinist because God moves first. But I do think that whether we accept or reject is up to us.
C
so now you're a Presbapterian? That's what happens when you live too close to Waco...... 
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colby5402
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 08:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bburgoyne26:
so now you're a Presbapterian?That's what happens when you live too close to Waco......
Presluthmethbapterian, thankyouverymuch. C
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bburgoyne26
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 08:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by colby5402:
PresLUTHmethbaptERiAN, thankyouverymuch. C
now yer talkin'.......
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cindyleigh
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 08:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by colby5402:
What you DO here on earth is what grants you access to eternal life. Not what you believe. To the Christian, you believe first and DO as a result. You've already gained heaven JUST by believing. And now you DO out of gratefulness for the gift you've been given. The Islamist does things in order to be OK when they die. The Christian is already OK...and does things in order to glorify God. C
Okay, I get that. So...what happens to the Christian that believe..but do bad things?
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colby5402
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-18-2006 08:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cindyleigh:
Okay, I get that.So...what happens to the Christian that believe..but do bad things?
Oh, you mean like me? When I get all uppity about people paying their taxes and start dropping F-bombs?? (Okay, I've done worse things...) Well, just as a parent who punishes their children, does so because they love them and want them to learn...same thing. We get punished. Christians still pay a price for sin. Thankfully, that price isn't eternal. C
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PeterP
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-19-2006 12:41 PM
Who allowed this to drop off the first page?
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xerosaburu
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-19-2006 12:43 PM
colby, do you think the earth is just a proving range or is it our home?
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fredurie
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-19-2006 01:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by melitoo:
Gotcha. I was totally confused since, as you mentioned, it is believed that reported rates of atheism in China are rather inflated. Since it appears fredurie is not going to answer my question on Buddhism, I wanted your opinion as an atheist as to whether or not Taoists, Confucians and the like were actually atheist.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/taoism.htm "# The priesthood views the many gods as manifestations of the one Dao, "which could not be represented as an image or a particular thing." The concept of a personified deity is foreign to them, as is the concept of the creation of the universe. Thus, they do not pray as Christians do; there is no God to hear the prayers or to act upon them. They seek answers to life's problems through inner meditation and outer observation."
[This message has been edited by fredurie (edited Apr-19-2006).]
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fredurie
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-19-2006 01:10 PM
Melitoo:http://www.buddhistinformation.com/buddhist_attitude_to_god.htm
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fredurie
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-19-2006 01:13 PM
"Buddhism is unique amongst the religions of the world because it does not have any place for God in its soteriology. Indeed most Asian religions (with the possible exception of some extremely devotional forms of Hinduism) are essentially non-theistic, in that God does not occupy the central place that is accorded to him in monotheistic religious traditions. But Buddhism goes beyond most of these other religions in that it is positively anti-theistic because the very notion of God conflicts with some principles which are fundamental to the Buddhist view of the world and the role of humans in it"
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fredurie
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-19-2006 01:22 PM
"Buddhism is unique amongst the religions of the world because it does not have any place for God in its soteriology. Indeed most Asian religions (with the possible exception of some extremely devotional forms of Hinduism) are essentially non-theistic, in that God does not occupy the central place that is accorded to him in monotheistic religious traditions. But Buddhism goes beyond most of these other religions in that it is positively anti-theistic because the very notion of God conflicts with some principles which are fundamental to the Buddhist view of the world and the role of humans in it"
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fredurie
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-19-2006 01:24 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_evolution
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